# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 457
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9122 "2016-09-27T06:13:35Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Let me turn this around a bit. > > So what I’m hearing from the police and the authoritarians out there is that when I walk out my door every day, hell, just every day because they could come into my house… > > _ **I have to do everything any police officer tells me to do, immediately and without complaint, or they have the right to kill me.** _ > > That really doesn’t sound very reasonable to me and I’m not quite sure when we ceded them this much power, but it is time to dial it back. Please. No one has said everyone has to do everything a cop says to do, immediately and without complaint or not, or they have the right to kill you. No one has said that! Nobody! No one has even implied it! However, if you don’t do what a cop says you will very likely find yourself the subject of some sort of action intended to bring you under control and into compliance. Maybe it will be threat of arrest. Maybe it will be threat of force. Maybe it will be force itself. But it should be obvious even to a two-year-old that the police can’t do their job if people are allowed to simply ignore them when they give someone orders. > [@Chimera](#): > > And being on PCP earns you an instant death sentence without trial, apparently. And here you go again. For the umpteenth time, Crutcher wasn’t shot for being on PCP. What is wrong with you? > [@Larry Borgia](#): > > “Do what they say and you won’t get hurt” is advice you give a hostage, not a free citizen interacting with a public servant. I absolutely cannot believe the stuff I read on this board sometimes. Yes, the police are public servants, but their role is not to bring you your slippers and make you a sandwich. Their job is to maintain the peace and enforce the law and to sometimes put their lives on the line in order to do so. So what would you have them do then in the event that people refuse to “do what they say”? If they turn on their lights to pull you over and you refuse, are they to just turn them back off and allow you to go on your merry way? If they’re called to a domestic disturbance and they discover one party has assaulted the other, but the abuser refuses to submit to arrest, should they just apologize for taking up everyone’s time, get back in their cruiser and drive off? Or what if someone’s breaking into your house and you call the police, and then when the cops arrive the intruder refuses to obey their orders to stop where he is and put his hands up? Should they make several entreaties and then just give up if he doesn’t comply? And especially so since the intruder may be having an ‘episode’ and be diabetic or on drugs and confused as to where he was and therefore be in need of help and understanding and medical assistance rather than a gang of angry sounding cops yelling at him to get on the ground. Clearly there have to be consequences to not obeying police orders, otherwise there’s no point in having a police force in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9123 "2016-09-27T08:14:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > ,Clearly there have to be consequences to not obeying police orders, otherwise there’s no point in having a police force in the first place. If there is no punishment, there is no law? Many people say that, mostly uptight assholes. Tight ass Muslims, tight ass Christians. Tight ass atheists. Lenin and Savaranola, same guy. If you cannot get respect except for fear, what respect do you deserve? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9124 "2016-09-27T08:34:17Z")
When come back bring pertinence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9125 "2016-09-27T10:20:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Clearly there have to be consequences to not obeying police orders, otherwise there’s no point in having a police force in the first place. Except when there is a very clear and imminent threat of extreme bodily harm, these consequences should never include deadly force. These videos do not show such a clear and imminent threat. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9126 "2016-09-27T11:15:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > When come back bring pertinence. Over your head, huh. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9127 "2016-09-27T12:24:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Please. > > No one has said everyone has to do everything a cop says to do, immediately and without complaint or not, or they have the right to kill you. > > No one has said that! Nobody! No one has even implied it! Now you’re just being disingenuous and as much of a liar as Trump. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9128 "2016-09-27T15:53:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Another incredibly [fucked up encounter](http://myfox8.com/2016/09/26/watch-greensboro-leaders-release-disturbing-body-camera-video/) with the police. That was…horrifying and infuriating. The guy uttered the word “harrassment” and that was all that needed to turn the cop into a raging psycho. Reminds me of the incident last year in NC with that teenager (Curry) who was accosted and pepper sprayed in his own home by cops who suspected of him being a burglar. There was a thread about it and not surprisingly, several folks seemed to take it on faith that Curry acted like a “asshole” who should have responded more “appropriately” when the cops barged in, threw him against the wall, and questioned him as though he were a criminal. But of course, the only evidence for Curry behaving belligerently was claims made by the cops. The was no video to show what really happened. Who wants to bet those cops lied to excuse what they did to that kid? Who has the integrity to go back and revise their assumptions about previous incidents (including Mike Brown), in light of what we keep seeing from corrupt, morally bankrupt police departments? Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9129 "2016-09-27T16:22:37Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And being on PCP earns you an instant death sentence without trial, apparently. Being _suspected_ of being on PCP. They don’t _know_ if he’s on PCP till the autopsy. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9130 "2016-09-27T16:44:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Please. > > No one has said everyone has to do everything a cop says to do, immediately and without complaint or not, or they have the right to kill you. > > No one has said that! Nobody! No one has even implied it! > > However, if you don’t do what a cop says you will very likely find yourself the subject of some sort of action intended to bring you under control and into compliance. Do you think that people are asking the question you’re responding to because they object to the idea of “action intended to bring you under control,” generally, or do you think they’re asking it because people are repeatedly being killed by police under circumstances in which we expect that police will be able to bring about control or compliance without killing anyone? Doesn’t that seem like an extremely important distinction? The fact that it was wrongful? It seems like exactly what action the police have actually taken, and exactly what behavior it was actually in response to, should inform the way we talk about this stuff. If we were talking about a situation where the police responded to a disturbance and somebody started throwing punches at the officers – like that video that was out there recently of the fat white guy who wasn’t tased, wasn’t shot, and I’m pretty sure just got away entirely – and people were criticizing the officers involved for, like, being mean to the person, or just grabbing him roughly, then OK. Makes sense to point out, hey, they gotta police. Right? But here we’re talking about situations where the police are ending lives. And you’ve personally even already said that in the most recent case, the police fired without justification. And now there’s a dead person. So why are you responding as though that isn’t the predicate for the conversation? Why are you responding as if the worst thing that could happen isn’t actually the thing we’re talking about? I don’t understand why it’s more important – in terms of what needs to change about the world we live in and what doesn’t – that there must be some consequences in some circumstances that aren’t the ones we’re talking about than the fact that the actual consequences in the actual circumstances we are talking about were a person being killed without justification. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9131 "2016-09-27T16:55:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Did she turn it off, or simply not turn it on due to her focus being on a large and uncooperative suspect who was behaving in a bizarre and threatening manner? I mean, the problem of course is that the function of the video is under the control of individual officers at all. Whatever system the car has should be running all the damn time. > [@kayaker](#): > > And if, while you are complying, the cop repeatedly shouts, “STOP RESISTING”? Well, then you’re probably fucked. I’m not saying the cops are in the right here. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9132 "2016-09-27T17:03:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Please. > > No one has said everyone has to do everything a cop says to do, immediately and without complaint or not, or they have the right to kill you. > > No one has said that! Nobody! No one has even implied it! I’m pretty sure you implied it when you said that all of these incidents of people being killed have one thing in common – people not complying. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9133 "2016-09-27T17:34:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > That was…horrifying and infuriating. The guy uttered the word “harrassment” and that was all that needed to turn the cop into a raging psycho. Yet the police apologists won’t recognize that some of these cops have personality issues and never should have been hired at all. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9134 "2016-09-27T17:40:22Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Yet the police apologists won’t recognize that some of these cops have personality issues and never should have been hired at all. Like the cop who shot the kid in Cleveland? > [@](#): > > In a memo to Independence’s human resources manager, released by the city in the aftermath of the shooting, Independence deputy police chief Jim Polak wrote that Loehmann had resigned rather than face certain termination due to concerns that he **lacked the emotional stability to be a police officer.** Polak said that Loehmann **was unable to follow "basic functions as instructed**". He specifically cited **a “dangerous loss of composure” that occurred in a weapons training exercise, during which Loehmann’s weapons handling was “dismal”** and he became visibly “distracted and weepy” as a result of relationship problems. The memo concluded, “Individually, these events would not be considered major situations, but when taken together they show a pattern of a lack of maturity, indiscretion and not following instructions, I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.” It was subsequently revealed that Cleveland police officials never reviewed Loehmann’s personnel file from Independence prior to hiring him Some said ‘but the kid had a gun!’. They didn’t seem to understand that this guy should have never been a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9135 "2016-09-27T18:11:04Z")
[DC cop shoots a guy then tries to give CPR (for some reason): > [@](#): > > Thirty-one-year-old Terrence Sterling was shot by an officer in the early morning of Sept. 11. Police say Sterling, who was black, was shot after he rammed the passenger-side door of a police car while trying to flee a traffic stop. His death has prompted some protests. > > Police say the officer who shot Sterling was wearing a body camera, but he didn’t turn it on until after the shooting. Footage from the camera was released Tuesday. Sterling can be seen lying on the ground astride his motorcycle and bleeding heavily. > > A clearly alarmed bystander can be heard shouting “Oh my God!” ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ef495e5bed2f4f13a8de5250c65aac1a/dc-police-release-body-cam-footage-shooting-aftermath](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ef495e5bed2f4f13a8de5250c65aac1a/dc-police-release-body-cam-footage-shooting-aftermath)) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9136 "2016-09-27T18:29:07Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Another incredibly [fucked up encounter](http://myfox8.com/2016/09/26/watch-greensboro-leaders-release-disturbing-body-camera-video/) with the police. > > Yes, it’s a long video and requires some patience. But it goes from calm, polite to WTF!!! in the blink of an eye. It’s quite disturbing. > > I’ve never shed a tear before while watching these kind of videos. Not even Philandro Castille’s or Sandra Bland’s video made me cry, though I came close. This video has really messed me up, though. And it’s funny, too, because Dejuan Yourse makes it out alive. But there’s something about his polite, cordial manner that reminds me so much of my big brother. I picture my brother sitting on our parent’s front porch (also in a suburban cul de sac), waiting for our folks to come home so he can do whatever repair job they need him to do. And then I see him being being brutalized by a cop hopped up on testosterone and authority. This makes me so sad and angry, ya’ll. > > Dejuan could have easily been killed. And if it weren’t for the videos, you better fuckin’ believe the story would have been “The suspect grabbed for my gun and I feared for my life.” > > The male cop has been permanently suspended. I think his partner should also be fired for her role in all of this. Did you catch the big-ass lie she told right before the shit went down? Perhaps if she hadn’t done that, Dejuan wouldn’t have (correctly) surmised that he was being harrassed. That video is incredibly disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9137 "2016-09-27T22:12:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That video is incredibly disturbing. Officer: Respect my authoritah! The article mentions this: “Cole had resigned from the Greensboro Police Department in August in light of the investigation. Because he resigned, charges against him were dropped. But he would still be able to work in law enforcement elsewhere.” Great. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9138 "2016-09-27T22:14:17Z")
Well, well, well. Turns out that Keith Lamont Scott was quite the package. According to his wife as she sought and obtained a restraining order against him last October, he: - Hit her eight-year-old son three times with his fist. - Kicked her. - Said he was a ‘killer’ and they should know that. - Said her husband owned a 9mm handgun without a permit, was a threat to law enforcement, and asked the court to prevent him from having it. In addition to what his wife said in obtaining her restraining order: - He shot and wounded a guy in Texas in 2005 and had a felony conviction from that. - The police are saying the gun he had at the time he was shot was previously stolen in a burglary and the burglar has acknowledged selling the gun to Scott. [Cite](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wife-protective-order-keith-scott-owned-handgun-article-1.2809061) So the guy was a nasty customer through and through, and not the peaceable pot-smoking, book-reading gentle giant the media has been at such pains to paint him as being in order to whip up emotions over black guy shootings. It’s also worth noting that the officer who shot him was black himself. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9139 "2016-09-27T22:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > …She dropped the order 11 days after filing for it, saying that the father of seven no longer posed a threat to the family… (from cite above) You skipped this part. Knowing what a stickler you are for perfect candor, I’ll help you out. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9140 "2016-09-27T22:45:25Z")
Yup, shore did. I passed it right on by. Any idea why? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9141 "2016-09-27T22:46:09Z")
How _your_ mind works? Not a clue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=456) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=458)