# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 460
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9182 "2016-09-28T19:59:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Duke:** > > Clearly, you are making an effort to be more reasonable. Good, of course. > > But you are kinda confusing. You say “… protests have devolved into riots in most other cities…” But in the next paragraph, its “…sure, protests can turn into riots now and then…”. Which, to my ear, sounds like it is the riots that are the exception, the extraordinary. Whereas the first quote posits riots to be the rule, rather than the exception. > > Can you clarify? The “next paragraph” was an attempt to go along with the poster who said that protests can turn into riots now and then. I guess it’s a matter of public record for anyone interested in parsing which cities have had protests and how many of those have turned into violent riots. My “shoot from the hip” guesstimate at the time was that more have turned violent than not - but I could very well have been mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9183 "2016-09-28T21:22:04Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Are you denying that they are people out there (and here) that hate cops and cannot be reasoned with, no matter what? I believe that there are and I chose to call them “cop haters”. I don’t deny that people like that are out there. Are you saying that there are those in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9184 "2016-09-28T21:55:31Z")
I wouldn’t say there are cop haters in this thread. Only people who think cops should allow themselves to be shot, stabbed or beaten rather than mistakenly get too rough with/shoot somebody who’s behaving aggressively and threateningly when there’s a 1/1000 chance that this behavior is caused by a medical or mental condition. Or by being black and ‘terrified’. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9185 "2016-09-28T22:03:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I wouldn’t say there are cop haters in this thread. Only people who think cops should allow themselves to be shot, stabbed or beaten rather than mistakenly get too rough with/shoot somebody who’s behaving aggressively and threateningly when there’s a 1/1000 chance that this behavior is caused by a medical or mental condition. Or by being black and ‘terrified’. :rolleyes: Or not actually doing anything imminently threatening, like in the videos. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9186 "2016-09-28T22:07:54Z")
Nah, he’s got us. What we _really_ want is to see more cops get killed. Shit, and we were so close to getting away with it! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9187 "2016-09-28T22:13:43Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > The Washington Post has a picture of him in the “Shooting stance”, vid doesn’t play for me. > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/09/28/police-shoot-black-man-in-san-diego-suburb-sparking-protests-circumstances-remain-unclear/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/09/28/police-shoot-black-man-in-san-diego-suburb-sparking-protests-circumstances-remain-unclear/) > > Better burn San Diego just to be sure. From the still, it could easily be construed as someone pointing a weapon to fire. Wonder if there will be actual video coming. And your last sentence could easily be construed as dickish and ignorant of current events, as well as events for the last 40-50 years. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9188 "2016-09-28T22:30:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I wouldn’t say there are cop haters in this thread. Only people who think cops should allow themselves to be shot, stabbed or beaten rather than mistakenly get too rough with/shoot somebody who’s behaving aggressively and threateningly when there’s a 1/1000 chance that this behavior is caused by a medical or mental condition. Or by being black and ‘terrified’. :rolleyes: I would not say that cops should allow themselves to be shot or otherwise harmed in those circumstances, but do you really think that those circumstances are that common? You really think that only 1 out of 1000 people suffer from medical or mental conditions? Do you really think that black men have no reason at all to fear for their own safety during a police encounter? Anyone killing anyone is a tragedy. I don’t want to see cops killed or harmed in their line of duty. I also don’t like garbage collectors killed in the line of duty, but I am not going let them shoot at cars, and use the fact that they were “threatening” as a justification. I use garbage collectors as an example, though they are a bit low on the list of dangerous jobs. You know who doesn’t even make that list? Cops. Yes, it is possible that asking police to make sure that they have a really damn good reason to end another person’s life may make it slightly more dangerous for cops. Giving the community that you police the benefit of the doubt, rather than considering the citizens you are supposed to be “serving and protecting” as the enemy could cause some nefarious elements to take advantage of the situation. I do think, however, that this would be more than offset by the community having better relations with the police, and so be less likely to wish for harm to fall upon the people asked to promote order. The net of the effect, I believe would be for fewer cops to be killed or injured while carrying out their duties, and as a pretty fucking awesome side effect, the cops also kill fewer people. There are bad people out there, I get it. I agree even. There are people out there that, sadly, need to be shot, simply because their existence is antithetical to civilization. Those people are pretty fucking rare though. If you go into every situation assuming that the human being with whom you are interacting is one of those people, you will not only be wrong virtually every time, you will create considerable ill will between yourself and the community that you are sworn to protect, and quite likely cause harm to someone who did nothing to deserve it. I would much rather police take a small chance on their safety, with the job still being less dangerous than collecting garbage, “rather than mistakenly get too rough with/shoot somebody”. The onus is on the police, the people who are recruited, trained and employed for the sole purpose of helping to maintain public safety to make the first move. Considering that you have cases where the shootee was doing nothing at all aggressive or intimidating, and they still get shot, means that the black community literally cannot do anything more to appease the police, why the fuck is the onus upon them? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9189 "2016-09-28T22:36:09Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > From the still, it could easily be construed as someone pointing a weapon to fire. Wonder if there will be actual video coming… Depends on whether the video supports the police story or contradicts it. If it supports their story, it will be released. If it contradicts it, they’ll do everything they can to prevent it from being released. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9190 "2016-09-28T22:51:46Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Depends on whether the video supports the police story or contradicts it. If it supports their story, it will be released. If it contradicts it, they’ll do everything they can to prevent it from being released. It’s San Diego County. The DA here is rather one-sided. I can guaranty you that there will be no charges coming from this DA, as that just never happens. Officer-involved shootings are never prosecuted, or so it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9191 "2016-09-29T05:41:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sorry kids, but out here in the real world where people have their feet on the ground and their heads out of the clouds, this is how things work. The media has things whipped up momentarily and the result will be that some cops will be killed who shouldn’t be, and people will be harmed and killed in riots who shouldn’t be, and relations between the two races will become even more strained, and then media attention will die down and real world realities will once again assert themselves and non-complying bad guys who behave in threatening ways will get beaten up or shot, and those who are smart enough to realize that no one ever comes out ahead by resisting or fighting with the cops and simply complies, will find themselves still unbruised and still breathing. > > Compliance, people! Compliance! [Compliance: > [@](#): > > Philadelphia Police Commissioner Richard Ross said officers confronted the man as he came out of the friend’s home with his hand in his pocket. Ross said officers ordered the suspect to remove his hand and fired when he “abruptly” took his hand out. > > No gun was recovered. ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6ea1defc4bae420aa7d6124af4fb5b17/police-fatally-shoot-suspect-philadelphia-stabbings](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6ea1defc4bae420aa7d6124af4fb5b17/police-fatally-shoot-suspect-philadelphia-stabbings)) Non-compliance=death. Compliance=death. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9192 "2016-09-29T13:44:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I wouldn’t say there are cop haters in this thread. Only people who think cops should allow themselves to be shot, stabbed or beaten rather than mistakenly get too rough with/shoot somebody who’s behaving aggressively and threateningly when there’s a 1/1000 chance that this behavior is caused by a medical or mental condition. Or by being black and ‘terrified’. :rolleyes: Hey, I see you’re still actively posting in this thread. I’ve asked you like 4 times for a cite that, prior to the shooting, Shelby identified that Crutcher was using PCP, a claim which you have repeatedly made. Please provide the cite or admit you were wrong. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9193 "2016-09-29T14:03:16Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [San Diego is where today’s “Cop killing a black man” event took place:](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/592d4538ff8d4bb6a54b93b992055518/latest-chief-man-shot-had-pointed-object-police) The thug brandished a vaping device. Blacks should have learned by now the 2nd Amendment doesn’t apply to them — why was this asshole brandishing a device that looked like a weapon? I’d call it suicide by cop: the men in blue did the thug a favor. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9194 "2016-09-29T14:14:56Z")
“HE’S GOING TO VAPE ME!!!” \ “I didn’t know what to do. He had a vape gun pointed at me and all I could think was that it may be loaded with a marijuana!” ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9195 "2016-09-29T14:17:55Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > “HE’S GOING TO VAPE ME!!!” > > \ “I didn’t know what to do. He had a vape gun pointed at me and all I could think was that it may be loaded with a marijuana!” Or, love boat. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9196 "2016-09-29T15:02:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And how many trees must you count before you are willing to say “forest”? How many of the thousand police shootings per year do you think follow this sort of pattern? No doubt there are racist police officers who let their racism creep into how they react to black suspects. No doubt some communities and police departments are plagued by a permissive attitude towards casual racism. No doubt there are dirty cops out there that will plant tasers on dead suspects to cover up murder. For me, the biggest problem is other police officers letting this sort of shit slide. There is some evidence that cops do not shoot blacks more frequently than they shoot whites (after adjusting for variables). I am encouraged by the fact that we are now indicting officers for making false statements to protect bad cops. I hope we start throwing them in jail so that police will stop lying to protect bad cops. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9197 "2016-09-29T15:04:59Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > In large part, because we arm them, train them, and charge them with policing our society. If there are asshole cops, there should be systems in place to remove them. There are systems in place to better arm and train police officers, right? So shouldn’t the system hold them accountable? Yes, we should hold them accountable but weeding out the assholes is like trying to separate roach shit from ground black pepper. All we can do is make it a very inhospitable place for assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9198 "2016-09-29T15:14:22Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > You know, to go back in time a bit, there was no reason for the cops who shot Tamir Rice to just stand around and not render aid while it still may have done some good. They didn’t call for an ambulance? > [@](#): > > Oh yeah the police union said that Kinsey was shot by accident. They were actually aiming for the autisic patient for the offence of not following instructions. Of course he couldn’t, he was autisic. I’m sure that the police apologists will say that it was a tragic misunderstanding. I would agree if deaf people weren’t also shot for not following instructions. > > Not following police instructions is not a capital offense. It depends on the instruction. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9199 "2016-09-29T15:19:46Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Because there are people in this thread who are saying that he was shot because the cops could tell that he was on PCP. Cite? I see where PCP is being cited as a reason for drawing a weapon. But the reason he was shot was because of what he did, not what he was on. I think the taser shot was justified (and frankly overdue) and the gunshot was not justified. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9200 "2016-09-29T15:22:37Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > “Do what they say and you won’t get hurt” is advice you give a hostage, not a free citizen interacting with a public servant. We as a society imbue the police with police power. That means they get to tell us what to do under threat of force. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9201 "2016-09-29T15:27:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Who has the integrity to go back and revise their assumptions about previous incidents (including Mike Brown), in light of what we keep seeing from corrupt, morally bankrupt police departments? Anyone? My opinion on the Michael Brown situation went the other way. Based on eye witness testimony, I thought he was shot in the back while he had his hands up. then I found out that the coroner’s report says that he was moving towards the police officer and did not have his hands up when he was shot. Turns out all those witnesses were lying and changed their story after physical evidence came out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=459) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=461)