# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 473
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9442 "2016-10-05T06:10:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So nothing is ever obvious? > > What is it that you think I am assuming? > > I know you want to quibble semantics and say that he wasn’t actually a suspect and should have been treated like a distressed motorist or something but he was a suspect. > > He became a suspect as soon as there was a reasonable suspicion that an offense had occurred. Do you think there was never reasonable suspicion? What offense was Mr. Crutcher suspected of? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9443 "2016-10-05T06:12:36Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Since we’re being clear: please list all the people you think are arguing against the tasering of Terence Crutcher, rather than the shooting of Terence Crutcher. I will raise my hand here. The reason given for tasering him turned out to be false (his arms were raised and he did not reach into the car), so why should he have been? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9444 "2016-10-05T06:13:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The post was saying that rioting is not exactly the fault of the rioters but the fault of some underlying conditions that practically force (FORCED I tell you) to riot. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there no it was not saying that. The rest of your post just bolsters the evidence that you are a jackass with a shitty attitude and a lack of self control. u mad bro? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9445 "2016-10-05T06:37:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What offense was Mr. Crutcher suspected of? I believe officer Shelby claims that she assessed his condition and determined that he was on PCP. He then went back to his vehicle, which he had left in the center of the road and apparently acted as though he might try to get into the driver’s seat. If he had been driving, which seems to be a fair assumption, and was in fact on PCP, most states would call that DUI. That is a non-trivial offense, though typically not capital. Hell, if you are white and live in Texas, sometimes you can get drunk, kill several people with your truck, and get probation. Though probably not if you are black. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9446 "2016-10-05T06:52:58Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Not to reasonable observers not biased against big black men shot dead in the street by cops. > > According to [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/2016/09/22/terence-crutcher-shooting-what-we-know/): > > > [@](#): > > > > An initial report published by Tulsa World[ contained the basic facts of the incident: Crutcher’s SUV stalled in the street, and after an encounter with police, he was shot and killed when he failed to comply with demands to put his hands up and instead attempted to reach into his vehicle: > > Since the video clearly shows this to be false–we clearly see his arms raised to the sky almost the whole time–what else should we assume? That the cops actually ordered him to drop to the ground but for some grossly stupid reason told the reporters the wrong thing? > > What “obvious” conclusion should be drawn about the discrepancy between what was reported to the press and what is evident in the video? Was his raised arms just an illusion caused by a trick of light and shadow? Or perhaps we are all suffering from a mass hallucination when we see in that tape what “obviously” looks like a man with his arms raised. Or it could it be that the cops took a gamble on there not being any video, so put forth a false claim in the hopes they’d fool dopes like you? > > The sad scary thing is that \* even in the presence of video evidence that clearly contradicts stated claims about Crutcher\*, dopes like you are still creating false explanations to defend the cops’ actions. Like, they must have–must have, I say–ordered him to the ground. Never mind that none of the cops have asserted such a thing. It is an obvious fact that this must have happened. It has to be, certainly. Just like it’s certain that Santa is real. Because otherwise we’d have to believe the unthinkable happened: that cops held a man at gun point completely unnecessarily after his car broke down, ordered him to raise his arms as if there was reason to perceive him as a criminal when there was not, tasered and then shot him after he obeyed their order and showed no signs of menancing conduct or ill will, and then lied to cover up their actions rather than holding themselves accountable. > > I don’t think you know what critical thinking is. Here we go again. The report published in the Tulsa World does not contain the basic facts but numerous errors. Crutcher’s car was not ‘stalled’ in the street, it was still running. (Do people here not know what ‘stalled’ means? It means that for some reason the engine boggs down and then stops running. For example, when cars run out of gas their engines stall out and they come to a stop. At that point they can be said to be stalled in the street.) Crutcher had abandoned his car. He parked it way over the center line with the engine still running and the doors open. So that part of the report is untrue. The next part that’s untrue is that he was shot and killed for not complying with police demands to put his hands up… He was not shot for not putting his hands up. The next part that is untrue is that he was shot for reaching into his car. As the video subsequently showed the windows were up and the door was closed, so he couldn’t have been reaching into the car. What he was actually shot for was reaching for the door handle (as early playings of the video showed before the media began editing it out). So despite this litany of errors, you still accept this article as a true account of the ‘facts’ in the case? And yes, like you say it’s true he had his arms raised almost the whole time. It’s what he did during the time excluded by ‘almost’ that is the problem, and what he did then was reach for the door handle. Why do you ignore the period not covered by ‘almost’ and act as though what he did most of the time tells the true story? I don’t know why I bother continuing with this thread. Reason and rationality have long ago gone completely out the window, the cops-as-wanton-black-guy-killers crowd is impervious to fact, reason and the realities of how things happen in real life police situations, and the rest of us are talking into dead phones…or more accurately, tape recorders that keep playing the same wrong things over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9447 "2016-10-05T07:28:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …What he was actually shot for was reaching for the door handle (as early playings of the video showed before the media began editing it out)… So, this was the truth that _you_ saw? Before the treacherous media “edited it out”? Before the media edited it out and destroyed any trace of the unedited version. And no one has access to the unedited version? _Poof!_ Gone! But _you_ saw it! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9448 "2016-10-05T07:32:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …He parked it way over the center line with the engine still running _and the doors open_…As the video subsequently showed the windows were up and _the door was closed_… Was he driving a '76 Heisenberg? The one with four doors or one door, depending? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9449 "2016-10-05T10:01:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Reason and rationality have long ago gone completely out the window The window that was closed? ---
**Author:** ![triton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@triton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/triton)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9450 "2016-10-05T10:43:53Z")
The truth is that provoking individuals to anger or rage is ultimately the test of “the best”. Any and all individuals that seem to have “less” of a future than specific others are targeted for the rumors. War is not existing because we won’t allow it. FEAR\> Well, actually the war (like Corinthians and Romans testify to in the Bible’s New Testament) is spiritual and intellectual. Not at all physical or in the world having physical repercussions for anyone, in fact. The war is won by the innate ability to discuss strongholds, speak of mysteries, and overcoming oppositions in speech. Its clever for sure. Carefully crafted stories to accommodate the fear instilled in societal groupings make perfect for that “learn from history” bit and helps characterize a free-like sensibility. This helps in the government control of “the masses”. If you can handle the extra weight I’m about to unload on you then you’re a true Alpha Warrior and worthy of honor. Federal government consist of sparingly grouped communities of small town drug rings and in fact are the dealers and addicts that take the “rich kids” for a trip and spin them right round into the ground. They speak of being arrested and extremities of detainment of themselves before their imprisonment, but really its all smoke and mirrors. Clear and clever ploys to learn EVERYTHING about virtually EVERYONE. This puts middle class hard workers in an unfortunate shift beginning around 2020. This is all I can inform you of officially. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9451 "2016-10-05T10:48:43Z")
Officially? Where’s your impressive hat, if you’re speaking officially? I’m sorry, I can’t take the word of an official if they’re not wearing an impressive hat. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9452 "2016-10-05T10:59:55Z")
> [@triton](#): > > If you can handle the extra weight I’m about to unload on you then you’re a true Alpha Warrior and worthy of honor. Yes! I am worthy. We are the champions, my friend! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9453 "2016-10-05T11:13:45Z")
A troll or insane or both. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9454 "2016-10-05T11:18:02Z")
**triton** , your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9455 "2016-10-05T11:20:01Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > A troll or insane or both. I’m thinking Texan. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9456 "2016-10-05T11:24:05Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m thinking Texan. … and he may be on something … ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9457 "2016-10-05T12:01:19Z")
Not sure if this was discussed yet: Sacramento police release [dashcam video](http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/10/sacramento-police-footage-joseph-mann/502709/) of cops discussing whether to hit a man with their car: > [@](#): > > “Fuck this guy,” one officer says. When Mann then comes into view an officer says, “I’m going to hit him.” > > “Go for it,” the other officer says. then trying to hit the man twice, and then getting out of the car and shooting him (the shooting is obstructed in the video by another vehicle). But there’s probably a good explanation for why cops coming onto a situation would be discussing whether to run someone over and then trying to do so, and then shooting him. Either that, or these are just the only two bad cops and they happened to get recorded the one time they did something bad and it says absolutely nothing about policing practices and culture. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9458 "2016-10-05T12:11:35Z")
> [@triton](#): > > The truth is that provoking individuals to anger or rage is ultimately the test of “the best”. Any and all individuals that seem to have “less” of a future than specific others are targeted for the rumors. War is not existing because we won’t allow it. FEAR\> > Well, actually the war (like Corinthians and Romans testify to in the Bible’s New Testament) is spiritual and intellectual. Not at all physical or in the world having physical repercussions for anyone, in fact. The war is won by the innate ability to discuss strongholds, speak of mysteries, and overcoming oppositions in speech. Its clever for sure. Carefully crafted stories to accommodate the fear instilled in societal groupings make perfect for that “learn from history” bit and helps characterize a free-like sensibility. This helps in the government control of “the masses”. If you can handle the extra weight I’m about to unload on you then you’re a true Alpha Warrior and worthy of honor. > > Federal government consist of sparingly grouped communities of small town drug rings and in fact are the dealers and addicts that take the “rich kids” for a trip and spin them right round into the ground. They speak of being arrested and extremities of detainment of themselves before their imprisonment, but really its all smoke and mirrors. > Clear and clever ploys to learn EVERYTHING about virtually EVERYONE. This puts middle class hard workers in an unfortunate shift beginning around 2020. This is all I can inform you of officially. The Five and The Seattle Group have been following your messages, and will contact you shortly. Do not, under _any_ circumstances, listen to or trust anyone with the initials “H.C.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9459 "2016-10-05T12:18:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But there’s probably a good explanation for why cops coming onto a situation would be discussing whether to run someone over and then trying to do so, and then shooting him. Fortunately your cite provides such an explanation - > [@](#): > > A 911 caller had reported Mann had a gun or a knife and was walking down a busy street on July 11. Police responded and tailed Mann for several blocks as he ignored their repeated orders to stop. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9460 "2016-10-05T12:25:26Z")
> [@triton](#): > > The truth is that provoking individuals to anger or rage is ultimately the test of “the best”. Any and all individuals that seem to have “less” of a future than specific others are targeted for the rumors. War is not existing because we won’t allow it. FEAR\> > Well, actually the war (like Corinthians and Romans testify to in the Bible’s New Testament) is spiritual and intellectual. Not at all physical or in the world having physical repercussions for anyone, in fact. The war is won by the innate ability to discuss strongholds, speak of mysteries, and overcoming oppositions in speech. Its clever for sure. Carefully crafted stories to accommodate the fear instilled in societal groupings make perfect for that “learn from history” bit and helps characterize a free-like sensibility. This helps in the government control of “the masses”. If you can handle the extra weight I’m about to unload on you then you’re a true Alpha Warrior and worthy of honor. > > Federal government consist of sparingly grouped communities of small town drug rings and in fact are the dealers and addicts that take the “rich kids” for a trip and spin them right round into the ground. They speak of being arrested and extremities of detainment of themselves before their imprisonment, but really its all smoke and mirrors. > Clear and clever ploys to learn EVERYTHING about virtually EVERYONE. This puts middle class hard workers in an unfortunate shift beginning around 2020. This is all I can inform you of officially. What the what, now? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9461 "2016-10-05T12:30:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Fortunately your cite provides such an explanation - > Regards, > Shodan Okay, I’ll take this seriously. You believe that it’s entirely okay and no problem at all if cops driving up to a situation with a report of an armed person, upon seeing a man on the street who won’t stop when asked, say “Fuck this guy”, “I’m going to hit him”, and then try to run him over with their car twice? Why is that okay? Even if they were certain this was the man reported to be armed, that means cops have free reign to run him over if he doesn’t stop walking when asked? No snark in this post. I think it’s terribly wrong for cops to try and run over someone even if they are reported to be armed, and even if they don’t stop when asked to stop. I think it’s utterly monstrous, and I can’t imagine how you can defend this. Please try and explain with no snark (which I’m often guilty of as well). Why is it okay for cops to try and run people over because they don’t stop when asked to stop? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=472) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=474)