# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 477
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9522 "2016-10-05T18:20:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If they are so flippant, why didn’t they just shoot him, or run him over, the instant they arrived on the scene four minutes after the first pair? Answer: because Mann ran away, thus demonstrating that de-escalation wasn’t working, and Mann was fleeing the scene, thus presenting a danger to the public. Based on the timeline as I understand it, they did try to run him over as soon as they arrived on the scene (four minutes after the first pair). > [@](#): > > Did you happen to read the quote I cited, about the drivers of other stopped vehicles, and pedestrians, on the busy thoroughfare along which Mr. Mann was attempting to flee? The link didn’t work for me (blocked from work). In the video, I didn’t see any bystanders particularly close until after the cops tried to run him down twice (and then he ran by one bystander and was shot several times 10 seconds or so later). > [@](#): > > I would phrase it as saying that I am at least as certain that using lethal force to stop a drug-addled maniac with a knife is appropriate as you are that saying “fuck this guy” and “I’m going to run him over” demonstrates a callous eagerness to kill or injure. Especially after de-escalation has been shown not to work. Sure, there’s a chance. Do you have any facts to indicate this, to counter the facts that indicate otherwise? I think “drug-addled maniac” is editorializing (as well as awfully uncharitable to someone who may have been mentally ill). “Disturbed person” takes that out. > [@](#): > > Is it the video that shows other pedestrians and drivers being endangered? Not the video I saw, at least not until after the attempted death-by-car. > [@](#): > > Is the audio that indicates, albeit crudely, that the two cops recognize that attempts at a hands-off, stay-in-the-car-and-give-orders approach hadn’t worked? There was no such conversation in the video I saw. Mann was adjacent to the first cops’ patrol car in the video I saw. > [@](#): > > It’s the Pit. If you can’t handle snark, go off to GD. > > Although I stand by my assertion - claiming a meth-head maniac with a knife charging thru the streets isn’t an imminent danger is stupid. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s not the snark, it’s the callousness. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9523 "2016-10-05T18:21:06Z")
Well, as long as you’re amending… > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by \*\*Starving Artist \*\* > …What he was actually shot for was reaching for the door handle (as early playings of the video showed before the media began editing it out)… So, this was the truth that _you_ saw? Before the treacherous media “edited it out”? Before the media edited it out and destroyed any trace of the unedited version. And no one has access to the unedited version? Poof! Gone! But _you_ saw it! > [@](#): > > \*\*Starving Artist \*\* > …He parked it way over the center line with the engine still running and the doors open…As the video subsequently showed the windows were up and the door was closed… Was he driving a '76 Heisenberg? The one with four doors or one door, depending? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9524 "2016-10-05T18:21:27Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’m not seeing it, but let’s clarify: **Snowboarder Bo** , are you protesting the tasering or the shooting? In that post I’m protesting **Damuri Ajashi** ’s shitty attitude, specifically how he believes everything the police say, even when the evidence shows they’ve lied. Then he excuses the lie, because they are police. I’m not sure how that isn’t clear to some people; thanks for the opportunity to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9525 "2016-10-05T18:22:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Okay then, in that case I’ll amend my comment about radio transmission from fleeing to belligerent, assaultive, and determinedly non-compliant. And therefore worthy of being run-over, despite no immediate bystanders or other imminent danger, according to the video? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9526 "2016-10-05T18:23:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Okay then, in that case I’ll amend my comment about radio transmission from fleeing to belligerent, assaultive, and determinedly non-compliant. **Starving Artist** got his facts wrong? That’s a huge surprise. And upon learning that he got his facts wrong he didn’t bother to update his opinion? Another huge surprise. This is the kind of thought process that leads to a man claiming that the physical act of rape is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9527 "2016-10-05T18:40:38Z")
What sort of thought process is it that leads a man to continually restate a claim in a different manner so as to change its meaning and make it sound ridiculous? So ridiculous, in fact, that no one with half a brain would take it seriously? One that belongs to a profoundly dishonest person who can’t win on the facts but whose baseless pride can’t let go and accept defeat, and so chooses even years after the fact to attempt to mislead others in a feeble attempt at some sort of long-denied victory, would be my answer. And one not worthy of much response beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9528 "2016-10-05T18:43:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What sort of thought process is it that leads a man to continually restate a claim in a different manner so as to change its meaning and make it sound ridiculous? So ridiculous, in fact, that no one with half a brain would take it seriously? > > One that belongs to a profoundly dishonest person who can’t win on the facts but whose baseless pride can’t let go and accept defeat, and so chooses even years after the fact to attempt to mislead others in a feeble attempt at some sort of long-denied victory, would be my answer. > > And one not worthy of much response beyond that. And yet, you persevere. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9529 "2016-10-05T18:55:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What sort of thought process is it that leads a man to continually restate a claim in a different manner so as to change its meaning and make it sound ridiculous? So ridiculous, in fact, that no one with half a brain would take it seriously? So, you’re saying that your version of the claim wasn’t ridiculous but my restatement of it made it so? oookkkkaaayyyyy. Hey, you going to address those questions which were posed to you earlier re: what you consider to be a fact? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9530 "2016-10-05T18:58:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, as long as you’re amending… > So, this was the truth that _you_ saw? Before the treacherous media “edited it out”? Before the media edited it out and destroyed any trace of the unedited version. And no one has access to the unedited version? Poof! Gone! > > But _you_ saw it! Yep, others saw it too. It was discussed at the time. Evidently you missed it. Being that the tape is property of the city of Tulsa and not the endlessly manipulative news media, I have no doubt Shelby’s jurors will see it too. And when they do, they will most likely find that Shelby was acting in accordance with her training and will find her not guilty. And when they do, the endlessly manipulative news media will likely once again try to increase viewer/readership by dishonestly whipping up popular opinion against the verdict. > [@elucidator](#): > > Was he driving a '76 Heisenberg? The one with four doors or one door, depending? I gave this question the appropriate response the last time you asked it. Evidently you missed it too. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9531 "2016-10-05T19:04:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So, you’re saying that your version of the claim wasn’t ridiculous but my restatement of it made it so? gookkkkaaayyyyy. I’m saying that you’re lying about what I said. Is that clear enough? > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Hey, you going to address those questions which were posed to you earlier re: what you consider to be a fact? Absolutely not. You’d need to become a considerably different person before I’d consider accommodating you on anything. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9532 "2016-10-05T19:14:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Absolutely not. You’d need to become a considerably different person before I’d consider accommodating you on anything. Don’t you love it when they pull the “I _could_ answer those questions…but I won’t, because you hurt my feewings!” move? Especially in The BBQ Pit? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9533 "2016-10-05T19:14:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Remember when I asked you to stick to just quoting me then responding to what I actually write? Why don’t you give your post a little re-write so that I might have something less hysterical to respond to? You see the part where you say “sounds like murder to me” That is where you are saying this was murder. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9534 "2016-10-05T19:15:37Z")
Starvey isn’t exactly increasing his own credibility here. We should probably just ignore future posts, since he can’t and won’t back them up with anything other than stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9535 "2016-10-05T19:17:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Granted. So then we are clear. There are people who protesting the tasering and there are people who might be protesting the tasering. Several of these posters (Chisquirrel in particular) have posted other things that indicate that he doesn’t think the tasering was justified. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9536 "2016-10-05T19:18:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Has “stress deafness” ever been used as a successful defense by anybody charged with disobeying a police officer’s orders? Being chased and/or yelled at by armed officers has got to be shitload more stressful than being one of several people pointing a weapon at an unarmed “suspect”. I dunno but if it works for cops, it might oughta work for suspects as well (if they survive the encounter). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9537 "2016-10-05T19:19:54Z")
When **Starvy** says T_H_E M_E_D_I_A manipulated the video, would that include all the pro-police websites, too? Were they in on this conspiracy, or do they have a copy of the “real” video we can watch? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9538 "2016-10-05T19:21:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because he refused to drop the knife, threw things at the cops, and ran away. Do you believe that a drug-addled maniac with a knife, on whom de-escalation did not work, presents only “the slightest chance” of danger to the general public? > > Regards, > Shodan Absent an imminent threat of death or bodily injury, don’t you think they oughta go for a taser especially if there’s two of them so one can shoot him with a gun if he charges while the other one tasers him? I think they teach that sort of shit in police academy. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9539 "2016-10-05T19:23:50Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Excellent lecture Sir, thank you. You’re easily impressed, you probably think Trump has large hands. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9540 "2016-10-05T19:32:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yep, others saw it too. It was discussed at the time. Evidently you missed it… Oh, it was _discussed_! Well, why didn’t you say so sooner, it was discussed! That certainly settles _that_! > [@](#): > > …Being that the tape is property of the city of Tulsa… Which _you_ saw. Before the lying media go a hold of it? How? When? Hey, you know what would totally win your point and embarrass your detractors! Post them _both_, so we can compare! Oh, wait, are you about to get real busy? > [@](#): > > …I gave this question the appropriate response the last time you asked it. Evidently you missed it too. The “appropriate response” would be something that explains you giving two entirely contradictory pronouncements. Not to worry, it you did, one of your many, many fans will point it out to me. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9541 "2016-10-05T19:41:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m saying that you’re lying about what I said. Is that clear enough? Maybe you should demonstrate your command of ‘fact’ vs. ‘opinion’ before you start calling other people liars. > [@](#): > > Absolutely not. You’d need to become a considerably different person before I’d consider accommodating you on anything. Literally everyone who’s ever participated in a thread with you knew you’d find an excuse not to do this. The only real question is what pathetic excuse you’d use. You lack the moral character and intellectual capacity to admit error, and that huge failing has led you to make some of the most disgusting posts ever made on this board. We’ve had trolls here, but we’ve only had one person, who when a poster confessed that he’d been raped as a child, called that poster a liar because it didn’t fit his narrative. And then you have the nerve to lecture people on civility. It’s like a dog lecturing people on physics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=476) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=478)