# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/941 "2015-03-06T23:34:21Z")
Wow. The DOJ is prepared to go as far as [_dismantling the Ferguson PD_](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/06/eric-holder-ferguson-police_n_6819898.html) to ensure changes are made. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/942 "2015-03-06T23:57:38Z")
Two Ferguson cops resign and clerk fired: > **[Two police officers, court clerk out at Ferguson over racist emails](https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-courts/article_5cca0f5f-7a1b-5b67-ab11-77541c9ad4f4.html)** > > Clerk was fired and officers resigned immediately after release of Justice Department report. > [@](#): > > Two veteran police commanders have resigned and a city court clerk has been fired over racist emails cited this week in a Justice Department report critical of the city of Ferguson’s law enforcement. > > Capt. Rick Henke and Sgt. William Mudd resigned Thursday, sources confirmed Friday. Also Friday, city spokesman Jeff Small said Court Clerk Mary Ann Twitty was fired Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/943 "2015-03-07T00:00:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > As you are a proven, admitted racist, then you finally accept that you don’t know what’s racist? That’s good to know. I must say it is very sad to see the personal dispute lead to such a stupid statement. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/944 "2015-03-07T00:06:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, the other possibility is that referring to Obama as a chimp isn’t racist. > > Regards, > Shodan it is now an added context to understand your opinions on the questions of race, and the openness to the inherent genetic inferiorities of the persons considered in American contexts as black. The attitudes are interesting. the confluences I can not see as accidents on the kinds of attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/945 "2015-03-07T00:07:06Z")
Also, the judge accused of fixing tickets for his friends, while jailing others unable to pay, has some pretty hefty debts himself. [http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/ferguson-judge-who-aggressively-fined-and-jailed-poor-residents-owes-170000-in-unpaid-taxes/comments/#disqus](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/ferguson-judge-who-aggressively-fined-and-jailed-poor-residents-owes-170000-in-unpaid-taxes/comments/#disqus) > [@](#): > > The judge in Ferguson, Missouri, who is accused of fixing traffic tickets for himself and colleagues while inflicting a punishing regime of fines and fees on the city’s residents, also owes more than $170,000 in unpaid taxes. > > Ronald J Brockmeyer, whose court allegedly jailed impoverished defendants unable to pay fines of a few hundred dollars, has a string of outstanding debts to the US government dating back to 2007, according to tax filings obtained by the Guardian from authorities in Missouri. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/946 "2015-03-07T00:22:53Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Two Ferguson cops resign and clerk fired: > > [Two police officers, court clerk out at Ferguson over racist emails](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_5cca0f5f-7a1b-5b67-ab11-77541c9ad4f4.html) Well, it’s a start. Life without parole would be more appropriate, though. Anybody want to argue on that? I’d love to. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/947 "2015-03-07T00:23:59Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Well, it’s a start. Life without parole would be more appropriate, though. Anybody want to argue on that? I’d love to. Sure. “Life without parole” for sending racist emails is stupid and not justice. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/948 "2015-03-07T00:24:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Wow. The DOJ is prepared to go as far as [_dismantling the Ferguson PD_](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/06/eric-holder-ferguson-police_n_6819898.html) to ensure changes are made. Pride goeth before a fall. Kiss my ass, Ferguson police. Enjoy unemployment. I hope your wives stop fucking you, and your dicks fall off. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/949 "2015-03-07T00:28:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure. “Life without parole” for sending racist emails is stupid and not justice. It’s not about what they did. It’s about making sure the public has faith in the government, and an extreme response to this sort of thing is a sure way to that goal. What’s the matter? Smapti hack your account? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/950 "2015-03-07T00:31:40Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > It’s not about what they did. It’s about making sure the public has faith in the government, and an extreme response to this sort of thing is a sure way to that goal. Throwing people in prison for sending racist emails would hurt in this goal. > [@](#): > > What’s the matter? Smapti hack your account? No, I just made a resolution a little while ago to do a better job of challenging stupidity even if it was from someone who I might otherwise mostly agree with on a certain issue. Perhaps some of the cops should be prosecuted (and if found guilty, imprisoned) for assault, Civil Rights violations, and the like, but not for sending racist emails. Sending racist emails isn’t, and shouldn’t be, against the law. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/951 "2015-03-07T00:38:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Throwing people in prison for sending racist emails would hurt in this goal. > > No, I just made a resolution a little while ago to do a better job of challenging stupidity even if it was from someone who I might otherwise mostly agree with on a certain issue. > > Perhaps some of the cops should be prosecuted (and if found guilty, imprisoned) for assault, Civil Rights violations, and the like, but not for sending racist emails. Sending racist emails isn’t, and shouldn’t be, against the law. If my tax money pays for it, then yeah, it’s a problem. And yeah, it’s evidence of a systemic pattern of racism, which IS a violation. It contributes to the pool of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/952 "2015-03-07T00:41:17Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > If my tax money pays for it, then yeah, it’s a problem. And yeah, it’s evidence of a systemic pattern of racism, which IS a violation. It contributes to the pool of evidence. Of course it’s a problem. I’m all for firing them. And using the emails as part of the pattern that justifies severe action (including the possible dismantling of the department) for reforms. But imprisoning them for even a week, much less life, for sending racist emails, is unlawful, unconstitutional, unjust, and just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/953 "2015-03-07T01:10:40Z")
Life without parole is a little harsh here, but I wonder if fixing tickets for their buddies merits any jail time. That court clerk, Mary Ann Twitty, especially sounds like an all around piece of shit: > [@](#): > > The Ferguson Court Clerk and a clerk in another city “‘fixed’ at least 12 tickets at each other’s request. > > • In one instance, a woman went to court and tried to pay $100 of a $600 fine. “The Court Clerk refused to take the partial payment, even though the woman explained that she was a single mother and could not afford to pay more that month,” the report explains. > > • At the request of a Pine Lawn court administrator, the Court Clerk recalled a warrant for a man applying for a police job in the nearby city. > > • The Court Clerk ordered police to arrest a woman after she had asked questions in court. > **[Three Ferguson Employees Lose Their Jobs Over Alleged Racism, Misconduct](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/fergusons-top-court-clerk-has-been-fired-for-sending-racist)** > > One of them, Mary Ann Twitty, the chief administrator in Ferguson's much-criticized municipal court system, was fired. The two others, Capt. Rick Henke and Sgt. William Mudd, resigned Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/954 "2015-03-07T01:12:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Of course it’s a problem. I’m all for firing them. And using the emails as part of the pattern that justifies severe action (including the possible dismantling of the department) for reforms. But imprisoning them for even a week, much less life, for sending racist emails, is unlawful, unconstitutional, unjust, and just stupid. The hell it is. They’re white cops, and they police a mostly-black community. If we want the black community to get its worst members under control, then there needs to be good-faith, sustained effort on the part of those in power in our government, especially in law enforcement and the justice system. In other words, we can’t expect them to better self-police if we keep giving thrm reasons to hate the government. IMHO ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/955 "2015-03-07T01:21:33Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > The hell it is. They’re white cops, and they police a mostly-black community. If we want the black community to get its worst members under control, then there needs to be good-faith, sustained effort on the part of those in power in our government, especially in law enforcement and the justice system. In other words, we can’t expect them to better self-police if we keep giving thrm reasons to hate the government. IMHO This has nothing to do with imprisoning people for racist emails. According to the DOJ report, there was plenty of actual law-breaking (which might involve prosecution), in addition to the bad practices like racist emails (which would involve firing and disciplinary actions). What Holder has proposed is reasonable, it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/956 "2015-03-07T04:08:13Z")
What kind of punishment do you get if you haven’t paid $170,000 in taxes in Ferguson? If you’re an old white guy named Brockmeyer, you get to be a municipal court judge. And you get to throw other people in jail. > **[Ferguson judge behind aggressive fines policy owes $170,000 in unpaid taxes](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/06/ferguson-judge-owes-unpaid-taxes-ronald-brockmeyer)** > > Ronald J Brockmeyer, who is accused of fixing traffic tickets for himself and associates, was a driving force behind using fines and fees to generate revenue I never thought I’d say this, but I am almost glad that Darren Wilson wasn’t charged. If he had been, the DOJ wouldn’t have launched this investigation, and these [two jerkwards](http://time.com/3735902/ferguson-officials-resign/) would still have a job. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/957 "2015-03-07T05:52:31Z")
One response is to make the city repay _all_ fines paid by black people. Yes, no doubt many are legitimate, but they are all now suspect. Yes, this will financially break the city. Tough. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/958 "2015-03-07T09:18:29Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > One response is to make the city repay _all_ fines paid by black people. > > Yes, no doubt many are legitimate, but they are all now suspect. > > Yes, this will financially break the city. Tough. A better solution would be to start punishing the white people who break the law _as well as_ the others, not to let every criminal get away with it just because some do. An investigation into whether any of the fines were actually issued without proof of lawbreaking would be useful, and _those_ fines could be repaid, as well as damages, but to repay all of them simply sends out the message that crime will be tolerated if people make enough fuss. It should not be. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/959 "2015-03-07T10:19:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > An investigation into whether any of the fines were actually issued without proof of lawbreaking would be useful, and _those_ fines could be repaid, as well as damages, but to repay all of them simply sends out the message that crime will be tolerated if people make enough fuss. It should not be. That investigation will have to be orders of magnitude bigger than the DOJ one, and still not cover every incident of racist fining (I mean, how many do you think can actually be _proven_?) This isn’t about “tolerating crime” (Seriously? “Walking while black” is a fucking crime in this town :smack: ) It’s about recompense to the people so targeted. And that would be black people as a group. So yes, it is about sending a message, only not the one you think. Now that that’s out of the way … still waiting for you to link to me admitting to racism, you lying sack of racist-defending shit. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/960 "2015-03-07T10:28:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That investigation will have to be orders of magnitude bigger than the DOJ one, and still not cover every incident of racist fining (I mean, how many do you think can actually be _proven_?) Prove that they weren’t committing the crime they were fined for. > [@](#): > > This isn’t about “tolerating crime” (Seriously? “Walking while black” is a fucking crime in this town :smack: ) It’s about recompense to the people so targeted. And that would be black people as a group. So yes, it is about sending a message, only not the one you think. No, jaywalking is a crime. If white people are getting away with it, fine them too. > [@](#): > > Now that that’s out of the way … still waiting for you to link to me admitting to racism, you lying sack of racist-defending shit. You’ve repeatedly admitted you don’t trust white people, and that you think differently of them to others. Everyone who’s read your posts knows that. And I’m not defending racists. I’m defending obvious non-racists against false accusations from hysterical paranoid idiots like you who think that everyone white is out to get you. We’re not, we mostly don’t give a shit, and would just like you to stop walking in the fucking road where we’re driving. No matter what your skin colour is. “Walking while black”. What utter bullshit. It’s crap like that that makes people ignore the _real_ abuses that are happening, because it’s so easy to see some nonsense like that and assume everything is nonsense. Don’t want to get “harassed” by the cops for committing petty crime? Stop committing it. Find me the innocent people fined and they’ll get my sympathy, not those who think they should get away with crime. That applies to the people wiping tickets or evading taxes as well, if this investigation causes them to be punished for that all the better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=49)