# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 486
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9702 "2016-10-12T20:45:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, I saw your mention of it. And I immediately saw it for what it was: a weak and obvious attempt to weasel out of providing the cites **Damuri Asahi** asked for and which you couldn’t provide if your life depended on it. He didn’t ask which thread your claims are alleged to have occurred in, and he didn’t ask ‘what I really thought’. (And is this not tacit admission you lied in and of itself? Why would you try to goad me into telling him what I really thought if you’d been honest in relating it yourself?) No single post of yours would really capture your descent into mental illness the way reading the entire thread would. What I remember from that thread was you becoming increasingly erratic while people went from arguing with you to imploring you to seek medical help or to please reach out to family members to check your delusion. Speaking of delusional, I can’t imagine a single reason you would encourage people to read that thread other than your delusion regarding how it went. > [@](#): > > What **Amuri Asahi** did ask was for you to furnish proof that I’d made the claims you said I made, and your response was a paragraph of weasel words. (And amusingly so I might add. It’s quite gratifying to see such a bold and bald-faced liar as yourself flame out in such a weak and obvious way.) If you’re expecting me to argue who the liar is here, I won’t. I don’t think you’re a liar. I think you’re stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9703 "2016-10-12T20:52:56Z")
Weasel words. Show where I made the claims you said I made, or slink off like **mhendo’s** done since I showed that he too was full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9704 "2016-10-12T20:58:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Show where I made the claims you said I made, or slink off like **mhendo’s** done since I showed that he too was full of shit. \*\*mhendo \*\*got tired of arguing with you because you were too stupid to understand the points he was making. I have repeatedly requested from you a cite that Shelby knew Crutcher was on PCP prior to the shooting, and you have repeatedly ignored my request. In fact you repeatedly cut my request out when responding to my posts. I used to think that you did that because you were a dishonest piece of shit, but I now realize that you are genuinely too stupid to understand what I was asking for. So I think I’m going to stop asking. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9705 "2016-10-12T21:07:07Z")
Weasel words. Cite or admit you’re full of it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9706 "2016-10-12T21:12:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Weasel words. > > Cite or admit you’re full of it. I’ve already cited, you’re just too stupid to realize it. Speaking of cites, where’s that one I requested? Wait, I forgot, I wasn’t going to ask any more because you’re too stupid to understand the request. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9707 "2016-10-12T21:24:54Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’ve already cited, you’re just too stupid to realize it. You know perfectly well that _“It’s in that thread over there somewhere”_ isn’t a cite. Everyone else knows it too. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9708 "2016-10-12T21:33:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You know perfectly well that _“It’s in that thread over there somewhere”_ isn’t a cite. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Okay, my call is that it’s already been talked about and referenced so look it up yourself. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nope, not gonna do either, thanks. It’s been talked about in this very thread, by me and **Shodan** at least. I’m not gonna waste time looking up stuff because you haven’t kept up with the thread. You poor stupid man, you don’t even realize what a hypocrite you’re being. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9709 "2016-10-12T21:44:44Z")
_Yawn_ Weasel words. You know perfectly well there’s a difference between telling someone that the information they want is contained within a thread they are already participating in and should have already read vs. you saying _“It’s somewhere over there in this thread from five years ago. Go find it yourself…or ask the guy I’m lying about what he really said.”_ This really hasn’t gone the way you hoped, has it? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9710 "2016-10-12T21:51:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You know perfectly well there’s a difference between telling someone that the information they want is contained within a thread Yeah, except it isn’t. And I would have called you a lying piece of shit for claiming that it was. But I’ve come to the realization that you are genuinely too stupid to recognize that it isn’t, so I forgive you, you poor stupid man. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9711 "2016-10-13T16:14:31Z")
[A study](http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/10/13/13252266/police-shootings-race) looks into use of force by police in Austin, TX, and finds that even when controlling for crime in a particular area, police are more likely to use force in black and Hispanic neighborhoods than white neighborhoods. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9712 "2016-10-13T16:49:43Z")
Does it say anything about controlling for those instances where force is necessary in those neighborhoods? If, due to various cultural circumstances, blacks and Hispanics are perhaps more inclined to resist arrest, then the fact that force is more often used in those neighborhoods says nothing about racist attitudes being the reason for it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9713 "2016-10-13T16:55:25Z")
Of course they use more force in those neighborhoods, those guys are a bunch of thugs. It’s in their culture. Racist attitudes have nothing to do with it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9714 "2016-10-13T17:09:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Does it say anything about controlling for those instances where force is necessary in those neighborhoods? > > If, due to various cultural circumstances, blacks and Hispanics are perhaps more inclined to resist arrest, then the fact that force is more often used in those neighborhoods says nothing about racist attitudes being the reason for it. I found this from the article interesting - > [@](#): > > Among vehicle stops, the researchers found, the non-racial factors — crime, economic conditions, and so on — “appear to account for a sizable amount in observed racial disparities.” This does not mean racial bias is fully absent from these stops, but the researchers couldn’t detect it in the provided data. This would tend to indicate that, at least for arrests subsequent to traffic stops, there was some factor present that meant that force is used more often even while traffic stops are not more common. So stops for Driving While Black is not a thing, but Using Force in Being Arrested While Black is. One wonders why racist cops are not more prone to petty harassment, and do not disproportionately stop minority drivers so as to indulge in racist use of force. It seems like a funny line to draw. “Sure, I like to beat n\*ggers up. But not pull them over for traffic violations.” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9715 "2016-10-13T17:24:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I found this from the article interesting - This would tend to indicate that, at least for arrests subsequent to traffic stops, there was some factor present that meant that force is used more often even while traffic stops are not more common. > > So stops for Driving While Black is not a thing, but Using Force in Being Arrested While Black is. One wonders why racist cops are not more prone to petty harassment, and do not disproportionately stop minority drivers so as to indulge in racist use of force. It seems like a funny line to draw. “Sure, I like to beat n\*ggers up. But not pull them over for traffic violations.” > > Regards, > Shodan But they don’t say anything about the cause. It could be from racist cops, or police training and practices, or some other factor. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9716 "2016-10-13T17:54:18Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Of course they use more force in those neighborhoods, those guys are a bunch of thugs. It’s in their culture. Racist attitudes have nothing to do with it. :rolleyes: Culture and race are not the same thing, although they can become intertwined. It’s not only possible but fact that when minority groups are economically and socially deprived, excessive criminality results. It’s not the fault of the criminals that they grew up in circumstances that lend themselves to a high crime rate, but at the same time we can’t give them free rein to commit whatever crimes they like because they grew up in unfortunate circumstances. Hence these communities have a higher rate of people who have warrants out or illegal drugs or weapons in their car or on their person. Thus as a percentage these people have more reason to resist arrest as it’s likely they’ll be off to jail or prison for some time once they are. So therefore a greater percentage of the time it’ll be necessary to use force to bring them under control and effect an arrest. This isn’t to say racism on the part of the police doesn’t exist, but it does mean that there are perfectly valid non-racist reasons why it might be necessary to employ force more frequently in minority neighborhoods. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9717 "2016-10-13T18:04:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I found this from the article interesting - This would tend to indicate that, at least for arrests subsequent to traffic stops, there was some factor present that meant that force is used more often even while traffic stops are not more common. > > So stops for Driving While Black is not a thing, but Using Force in Being Arrested While Black is. One wonders why racist cops are not more prone to petty harassment, and do not disproportionately stop minority drivers so as to indulge in racist use of force. It seems like a funny line to draw. “Sure, I like to beat n\*ggers up. But not pull them over for traffic violations.” > > Regards, > Shodan The same thing comes into play in regard to shootings. There are some who believe certain people join the police force just so they can legally kill people. Yet we don’t see a lot of shootings that appear to be just for the hell of it. In virtually every case some sort of provocation has taken place, and the number of officers who kill more than one person in the course of their entire career is vanishingly small. In fact, the number of police officers who kill even one person during their time on the force is vanishingly small too and many never even draw their guns. So the idea that the police are just wantonly shooting black guys right and left for no good reason is not supported by the facts ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9718 "2016-10-13T18:15:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …So the idea that the police are just wantonly shooting black guys right and left for no good reason is not supported by the facts Well, good! **Starver** 1, Strawman 0. You done? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9719 "2016-10-13T18:36:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes. You can be fired for any reason. Violating department procedures and costing the department 4 million is a valid reason. You can bet that if I had an employee that violated my policies and got me sued, they’d be all kinds of fired, even if we won the suit. The article didn’t mention violation of policies. What are you referring to? > [@](#): > > Teaches get fired all the time for all kinds of stuff. Posts to facebook, lewd behavior… about the only thing that they don’t get fired for is performance in the classroom. Would they get fired for allegations of lewd behaviour? Would the testimony of someone that got expelled or suspended by that teacher be enough to get them fired? > [@](#): > > Yes, they did prove that they did wrong. Winning a civil suit does mean that they were found to have performed the actions they were accused of, by a preponderance of the evidence. This is much different from mere accusation. Its not a conviction. > [@](#): > > So, I ask you again, are you happy with the fact that these men still have badges? Happy? Why would I be happy? I certainly want more evidence before I hang these guys. I would put them on desk duty but I wouldn’t fire them yet. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9720 "2016-10-13T18:39:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, good! **Starver** 1, Strawman 0. You done? I could let you know when the time comes, if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9721 "2016-10-13T18:50:36Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Dude! Bro! Pump yo brakes on the madness and do some basic research. > > If you live in [at-will](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment) state, you can fired for just about anything. You can be fired just because your boss had a bad day, let alone for costing him or her millions of dollars and horrible PR. Yo! Sis! Slow yo roll and listen to what I’m saying. Noone is talking about at-will employment but you (and maybe k9). Sure, most employers CAN fire anyone in an at-will state. But the argument isn’t whether these police officers CAN be fired (and I doubt they can be for a mere accusation), the argument seems to be whether they SHOULD be fired. Or were you merely asking whether these police officers COULD be fired if they lived in an at-will state and IF they were not actually police officers but supermarket cashiers instead. > [@](#): > > You better believe that if you or I were accused of sodomizing a client with a screwdriver and we were found guilty and our employer had to fork over $4M, we’d be out of job so fast we wouldn’t know what hit us. What fairytale world do you live in where this wouldn’t happen? The one where we’re cops. > [@](#): > > That you seem to doubt something so basic as this makes me think you need to sit your little ass somewhere and STFU for a good long time. The fact that the argument has shifted from an argument of whether two cops should be fired for losing a civil case to one of whether two random employees in an at will state can be fired at will makes me think that you didn’t realize that this was a civil when you first posted the link. Now some sloppy phrasing on my part opened the door to your ability to make this shift but I submit that you could have read my posts to be consistent with the post it was replying to instead of reading it as casting doubt on the concept of at-will employment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=485) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=487)