# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 490
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9782 "2016-10-16T02:59:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hey guys, good news! PCP-crazed asshat beats cop to within inch of her life. She doesn’t shoot for fear of backlash. Don’t you just love a happy ending! > > [SEE IT: Man beats Chicago police officer who refused to shoot him for fear of public backlash, rips out her hair as other cops Tase him – New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/watch-man-beats-chicago-didn-shoot-fearing-backlash-article-1.2831834) I saw this a few days ago but I can hear the argument right now, the cop may be in the hospital for a few days but noone is dead and the bad guy is in jail, better than a dead guy who beat a cop unconscious. Frankly I don’t know when she had theopportunity to reach for and fire her gun. The mistake was getting that close to begin with. I’m still waiting for Chappie style drones. I am still a big proponent of tasering. What you see in that video is not tasering, it is drive stunning and it mostly causes pain rather than neuromuscular incapacitation. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser#Drive\_Stun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser#Drive_Stun) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9783 "2016-10-17T23:20:37Z")
Maybe there’s hope for healing yet. [Police Chiefs Group Apologizes for ‘Historical Mistreatment’ of Minorities](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-chiefs-group-apologizes-for-historical-mistreatment-of-minorities/ar-AAj46ka) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9784 "2016-10-18T00:33:07Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Maybe there’s hope for healing yet. > > [Police Chiefs Group Apologizes for ‘Historical Mistreatment’ of Minorities](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-chiefs-group-apologizes-for-historical-mistreatment-of-minorities/ar-AAj46ka) Meh; they’re just feinting to get them to let their guard down. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9785 "2016-10-18T03:26:17Z")
Facta non verba. We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9786 "2016-10-18T15:01:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Could you please cite every poster here who, according to you, thinks we should crucify every cop that BLM thinks is guilty of murder? Chisquirrel comes to mind. Several posters want to presume guilt until proven innocent by video or audio proof. And there are several posters that think that police testimony should be afforded less credibility just because it is police testimony. I don’t notice you correcting them when they make these statements. Its like you can’t even see them. > [@](#): > > Could you cite every poster here who thinks it does justify rioting and looting Some posters here seem to be excusing it. We covered this already, didn’t we? Do you really need me to go back and find all the places where people say that the rioting is understandable in some way : Post 9196 seems to think that there are excuses for rioting; Post 9231 seems to think that riots can be excused; Post 9256 seems to think rioting is a symptom of a disease, you know, something not in the control of the rioters; Post 9328 seems to acknowledge that rioting is bad but ask us to focus on the core message of BLM as neighborhoods burn and stores get looted; Post 9361 seems to call rioting the inevitable result of injustice; and there are certainly BLM folks that think rioting and looting is OK, as evidenced by the rioting and looting. > [@](#): > > I’m just asking because you seem to have pretty strong opinions about other people’s opinions. But last time I asked you to cite the people who were protesting Crutcher’s tasing rather than his shooting you gave me, I think, 5 names, of which all but one said you completely misinterpreted them Chisquirrel in post 9199 and the entire back and forth after that until he slunk away after he realized how stupid his argument was. I don’t see how its not clear that he is protesting the tasering when he says "Nothing about that entire encounter was justified. " Czarcasm in 9363. If he actually thinks the tasering was justified then WTF is he arguing about? Why is he responding in that manner to a post about tasering? His response in post 9596 seem evasive. You had also read Ike Witt’s post as protesting the tasering but he later explained that he was replying to an intervening post by Shoadan (that quoted my post about tasering) that he thought was about the shooting rather than the tasering. I think he is credibly claiming confusion. I don’t notice any of the police bashers correcting these idiots. I try to correct the police defenders when I think they are wrong, I have been corrected when I made mistakes by other folks who defend a policeman’s right to self defense, all I see is backslapping from the police bashers. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9787 "2016-10-18T15:17:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Chisquirrel comes to mind. Crucify them? That’s what you got out of a discussion about shooting an unarmed man that we disagree on his threat level? This from the guy that implied a man assaulted with a screwdriver may have been a victim of prison rape and blamed it on police? I stopped participating in the conversation because it was clear you had your perception of events and refused to look at it in any other fashion, and I refuse to deal with those that can’t think about their impressions critically. Strangely enough, I looked further into the situation and almost came around on tasering him, though I still don’t feel it was necessary. You’re everything I find wrong with police apologists, and an inveterate asshole to boot. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9788 "2016-10-18T15:22:56Z")
He does too have a spine! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9789 "2016-10-18T18:24:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t notice you correcting them when they make these statements. Its like you can’t even see them. My participation on this thread recently has been limited to making fun of **Starving Artist** for being a stupid pedophile and wondering who you’re arguing with. I hadn’t realized there was a participation quota. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9790 "2016-10-18T21:35:00Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Crucify them? That’s what you got out of a discussion about shooting an unarmed man that we disagree on his threat level? Well, I am taking some artistic license. I don’t think you literally want to nail their hands and feet to a cross. But you are inclined to presume guilt unless they prove themselves innocent. I think we both agree that the shooting was not justified. Do you think tasering was justified? Oh that’s right, you said “Nothing about that entire encounter was justified.” I think it was justified because it is clear beyond a reasonable doubt that the victim was not obeying police orders and was quickly becoming a threat to their safety. > [@](#): > > This from the guy that implied a man assaulted with a screwdriver may have been a victim of prison rape and blamed it on police? A man alleged to have been assaulted with a screwdriver. I am open to evidence that they did this. I am open to sending them to jail if they did this. > [@](#): > > I stopped participating in the conversation because it was clear you had your perception of events and refused to look at it in any other fashion, I am happy to look at things from any rational reasonable perspective. You have never presented one. > [@](#): > > and I refuse to deal with those that can’t think about their impressions critically. Strangely enough, I looked further into the situation and almost came around on tasering him, though I still don’t feel it was necessary. You looked into it after you categorically stated that it wasn’t justified? THEN you almost came around? I think you are doing it in the wrong order? > [@](#): > > You’re everything I find wrong with police apologists, and an inveterate asshole to boot. I think you’re just pissed off because I have made you look stupid and irrational. You realize that stupid and irrational is not something you have to resign yourself to. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9791 "2016-10-18T21:37:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > My participation on this thread recently has been limited to making fun of **Starving Artist** for being a stupid pedophile and wondering who you’re arguing with. I hadn’t realized there was a participation quota. No of course there isn’t but I think every time you ask 'who ever said that" I have presented at least one poster that did say that. I don’t really think I’m being a police apologist (as Elucidator says I come down pretty hard on both sides of the argument) but the police bashers are the only ones calling me names. I wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9792 "2016-10-18T21:53:59Z")
Update: Remember the story about the police officer who shot the guy climbing out of his wrecked car? The officer who didn’t alert anyone that he’d shot the guy until 11 minutes after the fact, as the guy tried to communicate to anyone who’d listen what had happen? [Officer has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter](http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/10/18/paradise-cop-who-took-11-minutes-to-report-shooting-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter/). Which I guess is something, but it’s still a messed-up verdict given how the officer tried to cover his tracks. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9793 "2016-10-18T22:23:47Z")
And I just learned that the DA initially wasn’t going to press charges, but the outcry was too loud to ignore. So I guess those of us who are sane and justice-minded should be grateful that it ever went to trial. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9794 "2016-10-18T23:32:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think every time you ask 'who ever said that" I have presented at least one poster that did say that. And 4 who didn’t say that\*. A 20% comprehension rate isn’t great, especially for something fairly basic, like “is this guy protesting a tasing or a shooting”. With a 20% comprehension rate you should probably avoid calling people “police bashers” until you’ve verified they actually are bashing police, and not, say, commentating on the weather. Maybe as a gut check, you could list the police bashers? \*Been too busy to check your latest post. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9795 "2016-10-18T23:50:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > We covered this already, didn’t we? Do you really need me to go back and find all the places where people say that the rioting is understandable in some way : > > Post 9196 seems to think that there are excuses for rioting; Post 9196 can be read sarcastically. > [@](#): > > Post 9231 seems to think that riots can be excused; Post 9231 is simply saying that absolute statements are always wrong (:)). > [@](#): > > Post 9256 seems to think rioting is a symptom of a disease, you know, something not in the control of the rioters; Post 9256 starts “Rioting is stupid, wrong, and destructive.” And then addresses \*why \*people riot. > [@](#): > > Post 9328 seems to acknowledge that rioting is bad but ask us to focus on the core message of BLM as neighborhoods burn and stores get looted; Post 9328 states “Most protesters, and even most protests, are non-violent.” Which is a statement of fact. > [@](#): > > Post 9361 seems to call rioting the inevitable result of injustice; Post 9361 says “the riots are never justified, or justifiable” and then explains why they’re happening. With the exception of maybe 9396 (and 9396 might simply be sarcastic), none of those posts is justifying riots, and at least one of the posts you quoted explicitly and clearly stated the riots aren’t justified. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9796 "2016-10-18T23:57:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > And I just learned that the DA initially wasn’t going to press charges, but the outcry was too loud to ignore. So I guess those of us who are sane and justice-minded should be grateful that it ever went to trial. And this is a very pertinent example of the good that BLM has done by protesting unnecessary violence by police officers. If not for BLM I bet the cop walks away scott-free and doesn’t even lose his job. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9797 "2016-10-19T00:01:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Post 9196 seems to think that there are excuses for rioting; > Post 9231 seems to think that riots can be excused; > Post 9256 seems to think rioting is a symptom of a disease, you know, something not in the control of the rioters; > Post 9328 seems to acknowledge that rioting is bad but ask us to focus on the core message of BLM as neighborhoods burn and stores get looted; > Post 9361 seems to call rioting the inevitable result of injustice; > > and there are certainly BLM folks that think rioting and looting is OK, as evidenced by the rioting and looting. Please consult a dictionary and observe the different definitions provided for the verbs “excuse” and “explain.” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9798 "2016-10-19T02:15:13Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > And I just learned that the DA initially wasn’t going to press charges, but the outcry was too loud to ignore. So I guess those of us who are sane and justice-minded should be grateful that it ever went to trial. Yes, the attention that BLM has brought to some these cases has been very good for rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9799 "2016-10-19T02:19:04Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > And 4 who didn’t say that\*. A 20% comprehension rate isn’t great, especially for something fairly basic, like “is this guy protesting a tasing or a shooting”. With a 20% comprehension rate you should probably avoid calling people “police bashers” until you’ve verified they actually are bashing police, and not, say, commentating on the weather. At least one of those 4 didn’t respond and the rest were either confused and responding to a taser post with an objection to shooting (at least in their minds). > [@](#): > > Maybe as a gut check, you could list the police bashers? > > \*Been too busy to check your latest post. Are you seriously claiming that noone here is bashing the police? C’mon son, you know better than this. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9800 "2016-10-19T02:24:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Post 9196 can be read sarcastically. So can every post in this thread. > [@](#): > > Post 9231 is simply saying that absolute statements are always wrong (:)). No, it is implying that sometimes riots are excusable. > [@](#): > > Post 9256 starts “Rioting is stupid, wrong, and destructive.” And then addresses \*why \*people riot. Yes, and you can condemn an action at the same time you excuse it. See how people are excusing Trump’s "grab a pussy’ statement. They say, gee that was wrong BUT… > [@](#): > > Post 9328 states “Most protesters, and even most protests, are non-violent.” Which is a statement of fact. in and attempt to excuse or minimize the rioting and looting. > [@](#): > > Post 9361 says “the riots are never justified, or justifiable” and then explains why they’re happening. Yes it tries to relieve the rioters from responsibility because the rioters can’t really help themselves or some shit like that. > [@](#): > > With the exception of maybe 9396 (and 9396 might simply be sarcastic), none of those posts is justifying riots, and at least one of the posts you quoted explicitly and clearly stated the riots aren’t justified. And then goes on to excuse it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9801 "2016-10-19T02:27:52Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Please consult a dictionary and observe the different definitions provided for the verbs “excuse” and “explain.” They are excusing it through explanation. These are posts that are in response to my condemnation of rioting and looting. Some of it was trying to distance BLM from rioting and looting by BLM protesters but that wouldn’t work on this board if the rioters and looters were Trump supporters and it shouldn’t work with BLM either. However if we are all clear that rioting and looting is unjustifiable, inexcusable and undermines the legitimacy of the movement that is spawning the rioting and looting, then I feel my work is done on that front. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=489) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=491)