# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 494
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9862 "2016-10-24T20:48:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Couple things, First, this is the thread for exactly the kind of thing you are chiding. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else. No one forced yo to read it. I’m not criticizing people for posting to the thread. I’m criticizing the over-the-top outrage over the one-in-a-million happenstance that resulted in the woman discussed above being wrongfully kept in jail for three months. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Second, this story is specifically about a singular person who went through all kinds of hell with no justification whatsoever, but it is not the only person to have had this happen to them. This is just an example. Now, the big thing about this example was not that it happened. The thing about this example is that it was ruled that everything that happened to her was perfectly legal. That means that it is not going to be a single occurrence, it means that it is systemic. It means no such thing. In the first place, it wasn’t _legal_ in the sense that laws had been passed with the intent to make it happen, and in the second place the only reason it was technically legal is that such an occurrence is such a rarity that no one ever thought to create laws or establish policies to prevent it. So no, it isn’t going to be systemic, just like it’s never been systemic. The reality is that it simply isn’t possible to foresee and write policy procedures for every possible contingent under the sun. It isn’t even possible to think of them. Shit happens. Like I said, get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9863 "2016-10-24T22:14:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Shit happens. Like I said, get over it. Pity this happened to an innocent woman, and not to you. Of course you’d be back on the board to whinge incessantly about it if it happened to you, but at least we’d be spared your stupidity for 96 days. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9864 "2016-10-25T03:34:05Z")
[Wellness check goes horribly wrong.](http://thegrio.com/2016/10/24/renee-davis-fatally-shot/) > [@](#): > > The sheriff’s office said they responded to a report of a suicidal person, and found Davis armed with a handgun. Deputies ended up firing multiple rounds, fatally hitting Davis. Two of her children, 2 and 3, were in the home at the time of the shooting. Her 5-year-old child was staying with friends. ETA: Yes, she did have a gun. And she was 5 months pregnant. There was no other way to resolve the issue? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9865 "2016-10-25T06:08:05Z")
Texas man (with a name ending in “z”) leads police on a chase through the Houston area, shooting at them and damaging their windshield. Eventually, they [capture him](http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/10/17/texas-man-shoots-cops-chase-say-police/). Good thing he was not black. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9866 "2016-10-25T06:29:46Z")
I’d say it’s a good thing the guy whose name ends in “z” didn’t engage in threatening behavior within mere feet of the police, like most of the other guys who’ve been shot. It’s one thing to shoot a guy who’s in your immediate proximity who appears to be reaching for a gun vs. a guy who shot at you and missed a few minutes ago and then ran off somewhere, where he could then be chased down by a police dog and captured. So as is the case in most of these ‘if he’d been a black guy he’d have been shot’ instances, this is a case of false equivalence (i.e., not the same thing). ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9867 "2016-10-25T07:15:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’d say it’s a good thing the guy whose name ends in “z” didn’t engage in threatening behavior within mere feet of the police, like most of the other guys who’ve been shot. > > It’s one thing to shoot a guy who’s in your immediate proximity who appears to be reaching for a gun vs. a guy who shot at you and missed a few minutes ago and then ran off somewhere, where he could then be chased down by a police dog and captured. > > So as is the case in most of these ‘if he’d been a black guy he’d have been shot’ instances, this is a case of false equivalence (i.e., not the same thing). Yeah! Like playing with a cap gun in the park! Or heading back towards your car! It’s a good thing this guy who _opened fire on the police_ didn’t do something scary like that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9868 "2016-10-25T13:55:17Z")
What’s the point? **SA** has already shown that if you bend the rules of logic a bit…OK, a _lot_!..and squint, some of these cases are not as bad as they appear to be. Which, by his rules, means that _all_ of these cases are bogus and can be dismissed out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9869 "2016-10-25T16:20:13Z")
[Kentucky fire chief Julius Hatfield refused to assist black family involved in auto accident](http://www.salon.com/2014/11/20/kentucky_fire_chief_refuses_to_help_black_family_after_traffic_accident_we_aint_taking_no_n_gers_here/) saying “We ain’t taking no niggers here.” When an Asian-American reporter asked for clarification, Hatfield replied “Do you understand English, darling? Do you understand English?” For those who say fire officials are not law enforcement and a cop would never behave this way, I say “Eat shit.” I do admit that the story might be better placed in SRIOTD since the probability Hatfield is voting for the GOP is somewhere upwards of 99.9%. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9870 "2016-10-25T16:40:39Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Kentucky fire chief Julius Hatfield refused to assist black family involved in auto accident](http://www.salon.com/2014/11/20/kentucky_fire_chief_refuses_to_help_black_family_after_traffic_accident_we_aint_taking_no_n_gers_here/) saying “We ain’t taking no niggers here.” > > When an Asian-American reporter asked for clarification, Hatfield replied “Do you understand English, darling? Do you understand English?” > > For those who say fire officials are not law enforcement and a cop would never behave this way, I say “Eat shit.” I do admit that the story might be better placed in SRIOTD since the probability Hatfield is voting for the GOP is somewhere upwards of 99.9%. This is from 2014, but it’s interesting (and sad). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9871 "2016-10-25T17:57:04Z")
[It appears Mr. Hatfield had other issues besides racism only](http://www.wdrb.com/story/27976037/embattled-southeast-bullitt-fire-chief-resigns-from-department). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9872 "2016-10-25T18:21:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [It appears Mr. Hatfield had other issues besides racism only](http://www.wdrb.com/story/27976037/embattled-southeast-bullitt-fire-chief-resigns-from-department). > > Regards, > Shodan Do you think Hatfield was unique and a total fluke? Or do you think it’s possible that there might remain some small but still significant number of Hatfield-like assholes in charge of police and fire departments in some small communities throughout the country? And isn’t it possible that there’s a larger number of Hatfield-light types, who have similar feelings but are disciplined enough to not voice them aloud on tape? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9873 "2016-10-25T18:36:28Z")
When it comes to being a redneck racist, Hatfield is the real McCoy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9874 "2016-10-25T19:12:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you think Hatfield was unique and a total fluke? Or do you think it’s possible that there might remain some small but still significant number of Hatfield-like assholes in charge of police and fire departments in some small communities throughout the country? And isn’t it possible that there’s a larger number of Hatfield-light types, who have similar feelings but are disciplined enough to not voice them aloud on tape? In a nation of 300+ million people, I am sure there are small numbers of people who believe anything. How significant is that number? Not possible to determine without knowing what it is. Is it possible that there is a small number of Muslims who are plotting terrorism? Sure. Is it possible that there is a larger number of Muslims who sympathize with the terrorists, but don’t mention it? Sure. Therefore we need a ten thousand post thread digging out every incident that is, or can be made to look like, an example of Islamic terrorism, so we know how to regard Muslims. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9875 "2016-10-25T19:19:29Z")
Muslims don’t exactly have an iron grip on the authority stratum of America. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9876 "2016-10-25T19:36:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In a nation of 300+ million people, I am sure there are small numbers of people who believe anything. How significant is that number? Not possible to determine without knowing what it is. > > Is it possible that there is a small number of Muslims who are plotting terrorism? Sure. Is it possible that there is a larger number of Muslims who sympathize with the terrorists, but don’t mention it? Sure. Therefore we need a ten thousand post thread digging out every incident that is, or can be made to look like, an example of Islamic terrorism, so we know how to regard Muslims. > > Regards, > Shodan But there’s no history of Muslim terrorists in control. 50 years ago, do you think Sheriff Bull Connor was an anomaly, or were most Southern sheriffs like him? I think most probably were pretty close to him, and a good portion of non-Southern sheriffs were too. I think Hatfield is just the same kind of guy. So it seems a very different question than yours about Muslims, unless you think that there were never significant numbers of Hatfields or Connors in charge of police and fire departments in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9877 "2016-10-25T19:54:07Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Muslims don’t exactly have an iron grip on the authority stratum of America. Neither do racists. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9878 "2016-10-25T19:55:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In a nation of 300+ million people, I am sure there are small numbers of people who believe anything. How significant is that number? Not possible to determine without knowing what it is. There are going to be all types of all types, there is no question about that. The problem is when we start putting racists like that into positions of power. If a bigot had driven by the accident and said the same thing, no one would care (except his family or friends that may have overheard his hateful comment). But because it is a person with actual power to affect things in the community, it is important to care what he does with that power. > [@](#): > > Regards, > Shodan And you, my friend, have a great day, K9befriender ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9879 "2016-10-25T19:55:56Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Muslims don’t exactly have an iron grip on the authority stratum of America. > [@Shodan](#): > > Neither do racists. > > Regards, > Shodan Historically? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9880 "2016-10-25T19:55:57Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Muslims don’t exactly have an iron grip on the authority stratum of America. So the relative danger to the public (or to it’s individual members) isn’t really the issue. Muslim terrorists present a greater threat of large-scale danger and to totally innocent people than do these cases of alleged or actual police misbehavior, but the Muslim terrorist issue gets hand-waved away while the focus is kept on the police because…authoritah? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9881 "2016-10-25T19:59:11Z")
Well, considering this thread is entitled, “Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians …” and not “Controversial random shit that pisses you off,” yeah, because of _authoritah_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=493) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=495)