# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 497
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9922 "2016-10-27T02:32:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …Jim Crow is dead, and there is no such thing as institutional racism… [http://www.newshounds.us/fox\_s\_bill\_...wn\_ohio\_102516](http://www.newshounds.us/fox_s_bill_...wn_ohio_102516) Fox’s Bill Hemmer Calls It ‘Good News’ That White Vote Is Up, Black Vote Down In Ohio > [@](#): > > …In a discussion with the Republican National Committee’s chief strategist and communications director, Sean Spicer, Hemmer spilled the beans: > > HEMMER: I’m looking at early voting. You have good news in Ohio. White share of the vote’s up three points from four years ago. Black share of the vote is down seven… Sorry, didn’t mean to interrupt. You were saying? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9923 "2016-10-27T02:48:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Fifty years ago, racism was a significant factor in police shootings. Now, it isn’t. Jim Crow is dead, and there is no such thing as institutional racism. Delusion or insincerity? It’s hard to figure out which. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9924 "2016-10-27T04:53:52Z")
Maybe, but I saw the documentary about how the FBI got on the case and wiped out institutional racism. Turns out, it was just in the South, and J Edgar Hoover fixed it because he was tired of listening to MLK bitching. That’s a true fact, you could look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9925 "2016-10-27T05:12:36Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Shrug. > > Believe what you want. If you think i care in the slightest about what you think of me, you’re mistaken. If you really do want a response to your dishonesty, start another thread and i’ll humiliate you again. If not, shut up and fuck off. How do you figure you’ve humiliated me? You’ve been provably lying or demonstrably wrong in virtually every assertion you’ve made in this little dustup of ours. And no, I don’t think you care a bit what I think of you, but the fact that others on the board have seen you knocked off your faux-intellectual high horse once again and proven to be a not-so-clever liar and equivocator as well as self-confessed eager asshole is obviously enough to make you lose your cool and send you into fits of temper and name-calling that are most amusing to see. And all this is quite apart from your feeble and transparent attempt to explain away your absence after I proved you wrong by claiming the subject of the thread was oh-so-important as not to be interfered with - a concern you clearly never had during your lengthy posts before in which you were quite happily calling me a liar and trotting out your usual accusations of stupidity and dishonesty, all the while stupidly lying yourself about both your past posting history and my accurate mention of it. And then you give yourself away again by pretending an indifference you don’t really feel by offering a shrug and saying ‘Believe what you want’, only to follow it up with more hot-headed vituperation. Long story short, you are a profoundly prideful, dishonest, hot-tempered and eager asshole, and not nearly as smart as you like to think you are. Thus it’s surprisingly easy to goad you into revealing your true self. It’s a shame your no doubt endlessly bullied students don’t get to see the real you that comes flying out on this board whenever you’re irrefutably backed into a corner and shown to be full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9926 "2016-10-27T05:15:05Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > laugh. > [@kayaker](#): > > LOL. Good boy! Now roll over! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9927 "2016-10-27T10:57:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Good boy! Now roll over! No way. Your proclivities are known by all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9928 "2016-10-27T13:14:22Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > In 2006, the FBI warned of KKK infiltration into law enforcement. My god, a whole decade ago! Currently there are somewhere north of a million people employed in law enforcement in the US, including some 800,000 full- and part-time sworn officers. ([Cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States).) The Southern Poverty Law Center estimates the number of KKK members at around 3,000. ([Cite.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/07/us/klan-numbers/)) Could you please cite the hard figures of how many of that 3,000 are in law enforcement? TIA. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9929 "2016-10-27T13:59:22Z")
So, are we to assume that had this particular post not been made, **Shodan** would have entered a forceful and intelligent defense of his assertion that institutional racism was extinct in America? Or that he would prefer a more congenial tangent into numerical nitpicking? Perhaps we can offer friend **Shodan** a more welcoming and inclusive environment if we would refrain from mentioning facts that he finds uncomfortable. Perhaps then he could offer us more of his insight and wisdom, if he were not met with disagreement? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9930 "2016-10-27T14:32:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That is just wretchedly dishonest. To flatly equate protesting injustice with “riots and looting” as if there were never any distinction. I’m not equating protesting injustice with “riots and looting”. I am equating actual “riots and looting” with “riots and looting” Do you need links to BLM protests that have devolved into riots and looting? > [@](#): > > Are they stupid, do you think? There is an easy and orderly solution for their piddling problems, but no! No, they are stupid, they turn to violence and looting even in the face of your calm assurance that it is not necessary. Yes, I assure you (and pretty much anyone on this board) that in a functional western democracy, riots and looting are not necessary. > [@](#): > > Honestly, you believe that? Do you have a vast and comprehensive knowledge of them, that entitles you? Are they protesting injustice, or just a bunch of crybabies making shit up. The fact that they are protesting injustice does not give them license to riot and loot. People protest injustice all the time without resorting to rioting and looting. Do you need links to other protests that do not devolve into riots and looting? I also realize that autocorrect screwed up my last sentence, it should read (with a few [edits]: “Lack of training is expensive to fix, flat out racist as some people claim [is the root cause] is damn near impossible to fix [especially] with riots and looting.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9931 "2016-10-27T14:59:58Z")
Tell me how to protest injustice in an entirely innocent manner. And further, how to protest in a manner not only innocent, but that effectively prevents some asshole from taking advantage of the situation? Me and mine, we have attended protest demonstrations often, and we accept a presumption of possible violence. To us, mostly, we accept that we are placing ourselves at risk, we are willing to “take our fair share of abuse”. And it ain’t because its so much fun! And what of the violence of injustice, the slights and injuries endured because someone is powerless to prevent them? That occurs every day one lives, a thousand cuts. Should the radical protesters at Lexington and Concord have withdrawn quietly to their homes, rather than take the risk that violence might occur? Heavens above, some of those maniacs were tossing perfectly good tea into Boston Harbor! You disapprove, of course, of such “rioting”. Better a sternly worded post to Ye Olde Board of Messages. There is no such thing as innocent protest, angels have no politics, they don’t need them. To tolerate injustice is to consent to it. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9932 "2016-10-27T17:52:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Tell me how to protest injustice in an entirely innocent manner. Innocent? Who’s innocent, really? I’m not asking for innocent. I’m asking for non-violent. Is that really too much to ask? > [@](#): > > And further, how to protest in a manner not only innocent, but that effectively prevents some asshole from taking advantage of the situation? This seems to be a risk that pretty much any protest would have and yet these other protests don’t seem to get taken advantage of by rioters and looters nearly as frequently as the BLM protests. Why is that? > [@](#): > > Me and mine, we have attended protest demonstrations often, and we accept a presumption of possible violence. To us, mostly, we accept that we are placing ourselves at risk, we are willing to “take our fair share of abuse”. And it ain’t because its so much fun! So have I (mostly against the war in Iraq) and I don’t feel like I was risking the possibility of getting caught up in rioting and looting. > [@](#): > > And what of the violence of injustice, the slights and injuries endured because someone is powerless to prevent them? That occurs every day one lives, a thousand cuts. Should the radical protesters at Lexington and Concord have withdrawn quietly to their homes, rather than take the risk that violence might occur? Heavens above, some of those maniacs were tossing perfectly good tea into Boston Harbor! You disapprove, of course, of such “rioting”. Better a sternly worded post to Ye Olde Board of Messages. If they did it while members of a functional western democracy, I’d say put them in jail. Like I say in the gun threads, none of the rationales for defense against tyranny that applied when we were a colony of a far off king apply when we have a functional democracy, NONE. Our society is not so broken that we need to accept violence as a necessary or inevitable component of change. We laughed and jeered at folks who thought it might be time for second amendment solution but now that there is something we don’t like, well a little bit of violence is a small price to pay, right? > [@](#): > > There is no such thing as innocent protest, angels have no politics, they don’t need them. To tolerate injustice is to consent to it. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. You can protest without rioting and looting. People do it all the time in fact most BLM protests are peaceful. Why do BLM protests devolve into riots and looting so much more frequently than other protests? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9933 "2016-10-27T18:19:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You can protest without rioting and looting. People do it all the time in fact most BLM protests are peaceful. Why do BLM protests devolve into riots and looting so much more frequently than other protests? How do you know they do? The vast majority of BLM protests do not end in violence. But there’s been tons of them. Show me a ratio of BLM protests that end in violence compared to all of their protests, and compare that to other protest movements, and then maybe I’ll accept that this is true. It might be, but I’m not going to just accept it without data, and you shouldn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9934 "2016-10-27T18:40:21Z")
Who do we believe about police brutality, the police or [the police](http://www.fox5dc.com/news/213809206-story)? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9935 "2016-10-27T18:42:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Innocent? Who’s innocent, really? > > I’m not asking for innocent. I’m asking for non-violent. Is that really too much to ask?.. No. Ask all you like! Who will you make this request of? What you seem to be suggesting is that non-violent protesters must be responsible for the actions of others. You are aware, I trust, that the Bull Connors of the world think that’s a dandy idea. > [@](#): > > …This seems to be a risk that pretty much any protest would have and yet these other protests don’t seem to get taken advantage of by rioters and looters nearly as frequently as the BLM protests. Why is that?.. Friend **iiandyii** has this covered, and does not require my assistance. > [@](#): > > …So have I (mostly against the war in Iraq) and I don’t feel like I was risking the possibility of getting caught up in rioting and looting… I have the feeling that you are deliberately missing the point. Evading, actually. I’ve seen a spot of tear gas, more than once, and none of us dirty fucking hippies brought any. > [@](#): > > …We laughed and jeered at folks who thought it might be time for second amendment solution but now that there is something we don’t like, well a little bit of violence is a small price to pay, right?.. Seriously? That’s an equivalence, on your planet? Da fuq? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9936 "2016-10-27T18:54:55Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Who do we believe about police brutality, the police or [the police](http://www.fox5dc.com/news/213809206-story)? Forget it, Jake. It’s PG County. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9937 "2016-10-27T19:02:51Z")
[http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/boys-family-sues-town-over-his-fatal-shooting-by-deputies/ar-AAjtKJf?li=BBnb7Kz](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/boys-family-sues-town-over-his-fatal-shooting-by-deputies/ar-AAjtKJf?li=BBnb7Kz) Long story short. Two cops moonlighting as City marshals try to stop Christopher Few for traffic violation. Few takes off, cops chase. When they catch him, the officers get out of the car and open fire. Few is critically injured. His 6 yr old autistic son is also shot, fatally. Cops claim that Few has threatened them with his car, so shooting was justified. The video shows this to untrue. Few’s car was not in threatening position and his hands were raised, according to video. Neither officer tried to help the boy, who bled to death in the seat. Both officers are on trial for murder. > [@](#): > > Prosecutors showed the video of the shooting during a hearing last month to support their claim that it was part of Stafford’s pattern of hurting people he’s arresting. > [@](#): > > Investigators traced 14 shell casings to Stafford’s semi-automatic handgun and determined four other shell casings recovered at the scene came from Greenhouse’s gun. They fired 18 times into a car. 18 goddamned times. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9938 "2016-10-27T19:16:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Currently there are …? More questions!! But still no answers! Are we doing your homework for you? That’s not allowed, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9939 "2016-10-27T23:21:06Z")
> [@](#): > > The Chicago Torture Archive will open this month at the University of Chicago. The massive collection comes from efforts by the People’s Law Office, a civil-rights organization, to gather interrogations, criminal-trial files, civil-litigation documents, works of journalism, and records of activism spurred by the CPD torture cases documented between 1972 and 1991. [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/10000-files-on-chicago-police-torture-decades-now-online/504233/) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9940 "2016-10-28T02:10:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How do you know they do? The vast majority of BLM protests do not end in violence. But there’s been tons of them. Show me a ratio of BLM protests that end in violence compared to all of their protests, and compare that to other protest movements, and then maybe I’ll accept that this is true. It might be, but I’m not going to just accept it without data, and you shouldn’t either. Pretty much any ratio with ZERO in the numerator is going to be zero. That how math works. BLM has a positive number in the numerator with multiple incidents of rioting and looting. Can you point to another movement that has a positive numerator? Where marches turn into riots so frequently? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/9941 "2016-10-28T02:19:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No. Ask all you like! Who will you make this request of? What you seem to be suggesting is that non-violent protesters must be responsible for the actions of others. You are aware, I trust, that the Bull Connors of the world think that’s a dandy idea. Are you saying that the violent protesters are not protesters? Well, shoot, then the cops that unlawfully kill blacks are not really cops. We can all go home now. > [@](#): > > Friend **iiandyii** has this covered, and does not require my assistance. You might want to give him a hand. > [@](#): > > I have the feeling that you are deliberately missing the point. Evading, actually. I’ve seen a spot of tear gas, more than once, and none of us dirty fucking hippies brought any. What were you protesting that you thought you would get caught up in a riot? > [@](#): > > Seriously? That’s an equivalence, on your planet? Da fuq? Well no because the chicken hawks mnouthing off about second amendment solutions never actually riot or loot. They occupy practically deserted ranger stations in the middle of nowhere pretending they’re tough guys. As an aside, the guy that got shot went for his gun several times before the cops got tired of him and just shot him. I don’t think they would have given a black man so many bites at the apple. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=496) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=498)