# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 503
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10042 "2016-11-09T14:07:59Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > MLK keeps coming up in regards to riots. Almost as if he never commented on violence developing from protest: > > Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights. There are thus elements of emotional catharsis in the violent act. This may explain why most cities in which riots have occurred have not had a repetition, even though the causative conditions remain. It is also noteworthy that the amount of physical harm done to white people other than police is infinitesimal and in Detroit whites and Negroes looted in unity. > > A profound judgment of today’s riots was expressed by Victor Hugo a century ago. He said, ‘If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.’ > [@raventhief](#): > > So King himself felt the civil rights movement had violence as a facet of the movement. And he blamed not the ones perpetuating the violence, but rather the white community. You got a cite for MLK saying any of that? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10043 "2016-11-09T14:28:02Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …you think I’m talking about a fucking tag? It was the reference that was made earlier. And it was made because the presence of contemporaneous race riots were CLEARLY not presented as part of the Civil Right Movement on the wiki page. [/quote] I’m talking about the fucking page. [/quote] That page also refers to the Black Power Movement and does not seem to include it in the Civil Rights Movement. > [@](#): > > [Civil rights movement - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Civil_Rights_Movement_(1954%E2%80%9368)) > > How many other people share your unique views on history? Can you point me to a page on the internet that has a chronology of the American Civil Rights Movement that doesn’t include Harlem, Watts and Detroit? Yes, the wiki page you cite. The Wiki page you cite says: “The movement was characterized by major campaigns of civil resistance. Between 1955 and 1968, acts of nonviolent protest and civil disobedience produced crisis situations and productive dialogues between activists and government authorities. Federal, state, and local governments, businesses, and communities often had to respond immediately to these situations, which highlighted the inequities faced by African Americans. Forms of protest and/or civil disobedience included boycotts such as the successful Montgomery Bus Boycott (1955–56) in Alabama; “sit-ins” such as the influential Greensboro sit-ins (1960) in North Carolina; marches, such as the Selma to Montgomery marches (1965) in Alabama; and a wide range of other nonviolent activities.” > **[Civil Rights Movement: Timeline, Key Events & Leaders | HISTORY](https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/civil-rights-movement)** > > The civil rights movement was a struggle for justice and equality for African Americans that took place mainly in the 1950s and 1960s. Among its leaders were Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, the Little Rock Nine, Rosa Parks and many others. This cite distinguishes the civil rights movement from the violence associated with the black power movement and Malcolm X. In fact almost ALL cites seem to be able to easily separate the riots from the activities of MLK. Why do you seem to have so much trouble doing so. There are plenty of sites that lump it all together but plenty that distinguish the riots from the civil rights movement as well. [http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/civil-rights-movement-overview](http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/civil-rights-movement-overview) This one doesn’t mention the riots at all. > [@](#): > > If you think I’m junior modding you are free to report me. But I’ve been around this board long enough to know the rules and asking YOU if you think “haven’t you hijacked the thread enough?” isn’t an instruction, its a question. Then my answer is, I’m not hijacking the thread. > [@](#): > > You haven’t made this in this thread at all case at all. I haven’t made the case that BLM is pertinent to this thread? Are you fucking serious? I haven’t made the case that BLM’s legitimacy is undermined by violence? Are you fucking serious? > [@](#): > > Which people are those? Name names. You and iiandyiii. Your objection to my portrayal of the Civil Rights movement as a peaceful movement is effectively an argument that BLM is violent but so was the civil rights movement so its OK. > [@](#): > > Part of the civil rights movement was violent. To deny that is to deny history. Then lots of sites about the civil rights movement seem to be denying history. They seem to be able to distinguish between the peaceful civil rights movement versus the violence of the black power movement, Malcolm X and urban riots. And I note that you are saying that the Civil Rights movement was violent and this is largely because you want to excuse BLM for their violence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10044 "2016-11-09T15:20:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Then lots of sites about the civil rights movement seem to be denying history. They seem to be able to distinguish between the peaceful civil rights movement versus the violence of the black power movement, Malcolm X and urban riots. > > And I note that you are saying that the Civil Rights movement was violent and this is largely because you want to excuse BLM for their violence. I’ll just answer this, since I’m too sick about the election to get into everything else. We aren’t saying the civil rights movement, or BLM, is violent. We’re saying that they’re both largely peaceful protest movements marred by a very small amount of violence. We don’t call movements violent just because some very small portion of their activities devolves (or is sabotaged) into violence. Groups like Hamas are entirely different since their stated goal requires violence. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10045 "2016-11-09T16:18:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll just answer this, since I’m too sick about the election to get into everything else. > > We aren’t saying the civil rights movement, or BLM, is violent. We’re saying that they’re both largely peaceful protest movements marred by a very small amount of violence. We don’t call movements violent just because some very small portion of their activities devolves (or is sabotaged) into violence. Groups like Hamas are entirely different since their stated goal requires violence. Yeah. Lets just drop it. I’m feeling ill about the election as well. To what extent, if any, do you think that small amount of violence affected the election? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10046 "2016-11-09T17:33:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah. Lets just drop it. I’m feeling ill about the election as well. > > To what extent, if any, do you think that small amount of violence affected the election? I don’t know. I don’t trust that I have a good handle on these things at this time. My predictions were miles away from what happened. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10047 "2016-11-09T20:02:06Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You got a cite for MLK saying any of that? Why yes. > **[King's challenge to the nation's social scientists](https://www.apa.org/topics/equity-diversity-inclusion/martin-luther-king-jr-challenge)** > > Full text of Martin Luther King's address to the APA convention attendees in September 1967 which urged a change in society regarding racism. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10048 "2016-11-09T20:06:55Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So King himself felt the civil rights movement had violence as a facet of the movement. And he blamed not the ones perpetuating the violence, but rather the white community. > [@raventhief](#): > > Why yes. > > [King's challenge to the nation's social scientists](http://www.apa.org/monitor/features/king-challenge.aspx) And from that same speech in September 1967 to the APA: > [@](#): > > A profound judgment of today’s riots was expressed by Victor Hugo a century ago. He said,\*\* ‘If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.’ > > The policymakers of the white society have caused the darkness; they create discrimination; they structured slums; and they perpetuate unemployment, ignorance and poverty. \*\*It is incontestable and deplorable that Negroes have committed crimes; but they are derivative crimes. They are born of the greater crimes of the white society. When we ask Negroes to abide by the law, let us also demand that the white man abide by law in the ghettos. Day-in and day-out he violates welfare laws to deprive the poor of their meager allotments; he flagrantly violates building codes and regulations; his police make a mockery of law; and he violates laws on equal employment and education and the provisions for civic services. The slums are the handiwork of a vicious system of the white society; Negroes live in them but do not make them any more than a prisoner makes a prison. Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10049 "2016-11-11T02:12:41Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > And from that same speech in September 1967 to the APA: > > Bolding mine. I’m not sure my assumptions of a functional western democracy were entirely valid. Please come back later. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10050 "2016-11-11T04:36:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not sure my assumptions of a functional western democracy were entirely valid. Please come back later. we are all in flux right now. Take your time. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10051 "2016-11-11T04:51:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Any LEO who supported Donald Trump is a traitor and an idiot who is not qualified to wear a badge. He’s not going to make their jobs easier, he’s not going to make them safer, and he’s not going to reduce the crime rate. > > In a better world they would all be purged from the civil service along with the rest of the people who have enabled the destruction of the American republic. I think this is now the second time I’ve been proud to know you in this thread. In other threads, I’m generally proud to know you, but for this thread it’s unusual. At least now we know that there is a tipping point for you re: bad cops. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10052 "2016-11-13T06:40:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Former University of Cincinnati police officer Ray Tensing’s murder trial has begun](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a3b052de32704079b972a1b00d53e388/ohio-officer-facing-murder-charge-expected-take-stand). Tensing killed 43 year old Sam DuBose during a traffic stop in July 2015 for a missing front license plate. Tensing’s statements regarding the situation and shooting were apparently contravened by his body cam footage, causing UC to fire him and prosecutors to charge him. [Mistrial declared: > [@](#): > > Jurors failed to come up with a verdict against a white former police officer charged with murder in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black motorist and were leaning toward a lesser conviction, a prosecutor said Saturday after a mistrial was declared. > > The jury spent some 25 hours debating the outcome and indicated several times that they were deadlocked before a judge agreed. > > Prosecutors will decide within the next two weeks whether to retry former University of Cincinnati police officer Ray Tensing. ]([http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US\_CINCINNATI\_POLICE\_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-11-12-18-47-54](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CINCINNATI_POLICE_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-11-12-18-47-54)) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10053 "2016-11-13T16:42:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Mistrial declared:](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CINCINNATI_POLICE_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-11-12-18-47-54) I was shocked by this, though this has been a week of shocks for me. As a Cincinatian who was here for the 2001 riots, let me first say that I hope there is no violence associated with this verdict. That said, I thought this was in the bag. I thought the video evidence was pretty compelling. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say taht one of the jurors was like our resident starving artist, and refused to convict in light of any evidence, but we will know more once the jurors start talking. I hope that there is a retrial. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10054 "2016-11-13T20:24:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I haven’t made the case that BLM’s legitimacy is undermined by violence? Are you fucking serious? I’ve been noticing some pretty violent non-BLM riots recently. Fucking white people need to get their shit together. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10055 "2016-11-14T14:03:13Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’ve been noticing some pretty violent non-BLM riots recently. Fucking white people need to get their shit together. It legitimizes many things that conservatives think about liberals and undermines the argument against Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10056 "2016-11-14T14:28:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It legitimizes many things that conservatives think about liberals and undermines the argument against Trump. All liberals are complicit in the violence of the anti-Trump riots, which are the most violent riots in the history of mankind. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10057 "2016-11-15T13:57:04Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > All liberals are complicit in the violence of the anti-Trump riots, which are the most violent riots in the history of mankind. No, not all liberals. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10058 "2016-11-15T14:25:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No, not all liberals. If any liberals are involved, then it tars us all. I for one, think that it is a perfectly good time to protest. To let the new Trump regime know that we are still here. The riots and violence and breaking of things though, that needs to stop. I mean, wait until he actually does something worth rioting over, anyway. He starts rounding up undesirables into box cars, yeah, that’s a pretty good time to riot, but we are a long ways from that. (I hope) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10059 "2016-11-15T14:26:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No, not all liberals. Don’t be a hypocrite. If BLM is responsible for rioters at BLM protests, then liberals are responsible for rioters at anti-Trump protests. Stupid violent liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10060 "2016-11-15T21:20:57Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Don’t be a hypocrite. If BLM is responsible for rioters at BLM protests, then liberals are responsible for rioters at anti-Trump protests. > > Stupid violent liberals. No hypocrisy here. Liberals as a whole are not engaging in anti-trump protests (just like folks who are against police abuse and murder are not generally members of BLM). At most, you could extend my logic to say that the anti-trump movement is a violent movement. The anti-Trump folks are responsible for the anti-trump protests, not liberals generally any more than liberals generally are responsible for BLM. I don’t support the anti-trump protests and I am by most accounts a liberal. I don’t support BLM 9anymore) and I am by most accounts a liberal. Did anyone incite violence at these anti-Trump protests? Was there violent language being used? Or did the violence actually develop organically without any prodding or encouragement from the organizers of the protest? The anti-Trump movement has been delegitimized (if it ever had much legitimacy to begin with) by the violence, especially if there was inciteful language 9like “burn the bitch down” or if there was ciolent rhetoric being used during the march. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10061 "2016-11-15T21:30:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If any liberals are involved, then it tars us all. Yes but it doesn’t make liberalism a violent movement. > [@](#): > > I for one, think that it is a perfectly good time to protest. To let the new Trump regime know that we are still here. I think protesting at this time is pretty close to protesting democracy. > [@](#): > > The riots and violence and breaking of things though, that needs to stop. > > I mean, wait until he actually does something worth rioting over, anyway. He starts rounding up undesirables into box cars, yeah, that’s a pretty good time to riot, but we are a long ways from that. (I hope) I agree. If he starts doing any of that then it probably goes beyond rioting. If he starts putting people in box cars then tyranny has come and the heller case may not seem so wrongly decided to some folks anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=502) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=504)