# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 506
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10102 "2016-12-06T17:47:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If shooting a fleeing suspect in the back and then planting a taser on them doesn’t make you think that he had ill intent (racist or not), what would? These people would need a cop on video saying something like, “Man, I’m glad I shot that nigger. This morning when I woke I said to myself, ‘I’m going to shoot a black person today and nothing will stop me.’ And then I did it. Today has been a great day, especially because my boss will finally get off my back for failing to reach my ‘black people shot’ quota.” And even then, hey, you don’t want to jump to conclusions, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10103 "2016-12-06T18:22:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If shooting a fleeing suspect in the back and then planting a taser on them doesn’t make you think that he had ill intent (racist or not), what would? Keep in mind that **Starving Artist** is a Jerry Sandusky apologist. Something about cardboard tubes… > [@RandMcnally](#): > > These people would need a cop on video saying something like, “Man, I’m glad I shot that nigger. This morning when I woke I said to myself, ‘I’m going to shoot a black person today and nothing will stop me.’ And then I did it. Today has been a great day, especially because my boss will finally get off my back for failing to reach my ‘black people shot’ quota.” > > And even then, hey, you don’t want to jump to conclusions, y’know? Something similar–[Officer speaks of using force before James Boyd shooting:](http://krqe.com/2014/09/29/officer-speaks-of-using-force-before-james-boyd-shooting/) > [@](#): > > ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) — There’s new controversy over something one of the Albuquerque police officers who shot and killed James Boyd said hours before he pulled the trigger. > > APD detective Keith Sandy is heard calling Boyd a lunatic, and it’s clear he spoke about using force against the homeless camper, something that was caught on a New Mexico State Police audio recording. > > “This f\*\*\*\*\*g lunatic? (unintelligible) I’m going to shoot him with a (unintelligible) shotgun here in a second,” said Sandy. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10104 "2016-12-06T21:20:13Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > These people would need a cop on video saying something like, “Man, I’m glad I shot that nigger. This morning when I woke I said to myself, ‘I’m going to shoot a black person today and nothing will stop me.’ And then I did it. Today has been a great day, especially because my boss will finally get off my back for failing to reach my ‘black people shot’ quota.” > > And even then, hey, you don’t want to jump to conclusions, y’know? “That’s just locker room talk.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10105 "2016-12-06T22:55:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If shooting a fleeing suspect in the back and then planting a taser on them doesn’t make you think that he had ill intent (racist or not), what would? Slager didn’t plant a taser on Scott. He moved it from where it lie on the ground after Scott tried to take it from him and moved it close to where Scott lay. This may be a distinction without a difference in the minds of some, but it’s nevertheless a fact that Slager did not plant the taser on Scott’s body. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You know who else thinks that? Every murder law in every state. Shooting an unarmed person in the back is very very hard to characterize as anything other than some type of murder unless the gun went off accidentally. Five times. There are many situations where a cop may lawfully and rightfully shoot a fleeing suspect. Fleeing the scene of a rape, a murder, an armed intrusion, a bank robbery, a kidnapping or abduction, etc., etc., etc. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And what if anything do you think the consequences should be to the offending officers? I’ve said before that I think it’s a problem of training. Cops are being taught to respond this way so as to increase as much as possible their ability to return safely to their homes at the end of the day (which is all well and good until it goes too far and people wind up getting shot because the cops are overly cautious about what are really minor threats). So I’d be reluctant to punish the officers for doing what they’ve been taught to do and for assuming that to do so is legal, because after all, it’s what they’ve been taught to do by cops who ought to know. So I’d suggest that the training methods be changed first of all, and that lawsuits against the cities who allow such training in order to bring them into compliance should their police departments fail to institute such changes in their training procedures. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10106 "2016-12-06T23:06:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve said before that I think it’s a problem of training. **Cops are being taught to respond this way so as to increase as much as possible their ability to return safely to their homes at the end of the day** (which is all well and good until it goes too far and people wind up getting shot because the cops are overly cautious about what are really minor threats). So I’d be reluctant to punish the officers for doing what they’ve been taught to do and for assuming that to do so is legal, because after all, it’s what they’ve been taught to do by cops who ought to know. So I’d suggest that the training methods be changed first of all, and that lawsuits against the cities who allow such training in order to bring them into compliance should their police departments fail to institute such changes in their training procedures. _(emphasis mine)_ Shooting an unarmed traffic violator five times in the back vs going home safe? That’s not “cautious.” That’s murder. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10107 "2016-12-06T23:12:59Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Shooting an unarmed traffic violator five times in the back vs going home safe? > > That’s not “cautious.” That’s murder. _sigh_ Did I include shooting an unarmed traffic violator (who had fought with the officer, btw, and attempted to take the taser from him) among the reasons a cop may justifiably shoot a fleeing suspect? No, I didn’t. And since I didn’t, why your post? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10108 "2016-12-07T13:41:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Slager didn’t plant a taser on Scott. He moved it from where it lie on the ground after Scott tried to take it from him and moved it close to where Scott lay. This may be a distinction without a difference in the minds of some, but it’s nevertheless a fact that Slager did not plant the taser on Scott’s body. He tampered with evidence to make himself look innocent by putting a weapon on or near his body. That is what planting means. So a few years ago, a property owner got into a scuffle with an armed burglar. The burglar dropped his weapon (or was disarmed) and he fled. The property owner shot the fleeing burglar twenty feet outside this property line. The property owner dragged the corpse back inside his property line and called the police. What should happen to that property owner? > [@](#): > > There are many situations where a cop may lawfully and rightfully shoot a fleeing suspect. Fleeing the scene of a rape, a murder, an armed intrusion, a bank robbery, a kidnapping or abduction, etc., etc., etc. Yes, I meant an unarmed fleeing suspect. You can also try to shoot a kidnapper if you think you are a good enough shot to hit the kidnapper without shooting the victim. You can generally shoot a fleeing suspect that poses a threat to the public (see Garner decision). But shooting an unarmed fleeing suspect like this case is inexcusable. > [@](#): > > I’ve said before that I think it’s a problem of training. Cops are being taught to respond this way so as to increase as much as possible their ability to return safely to their homes at the end of the day (which is all well and good until it goes too far and people wind up getting shot because the cops are overly cautious about what are really minor threats). So I’d be reluctant to punish the officers for doing what they’ve been taught to do and for assuming that to do so is legal, because after all, it’s what they’ve been taught to do by cops who ought to know. So I’d suggest that the training methods be changed first of all, and that lawsuits against the cities who allow such training in order to bring them into compliance should their police departments fail to institute such changes in their training procedures. If its a problem with training, then why are cases like this so rare (and they ARE rare)? Why haven’t we seen a rash of unjustified police shootings in South Carolina and around the country? No this was a bad cop and if we stand up to defend all cops good or bad, it gives cops license to be bad. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10109 "2016-12-07T13:45:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > _sigh_ > > Did I include shooting an unarmed traffic violator (who had fought with the officer, btw, and attempted to take the taser from him) among the reasons a cop may justifiably shoot a fleeing suspect? > > No, I didn’t. And since I didn’t, why your post? BTW, who says that the murder victim tried to take the taser away from the cop that planted a weapon on the corpse of the murder victim then lied about it? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10110 "2016-12-07T13:51:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > BTW, who says that the murder victim tried to take the taser away from the cop that planted a weapon on the corpse of the murder victim then lied about it? I was wondering about that- was the taser struggle caught on tape or is our just the testimony of the cop who then planted the weapon near his body? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10111 "2016-12-07T15:53:15Z")
[Charges dropped 😕 > [@](#): > > Murder charges have been dropped against a man in the killing of a Detroit college police officer who was shot in the head last month. > > Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said Wednesday that charges against DeAngelo Davis have been dropped. The 31-year-old Detroit man was accused of shooting Wayne State University Officer Collin Rose on Nov. 22. Davis had been jailed without bond since his arrest that night. He faced charges of first-degree murder and murder of a police officer. ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2c770aa953884ef68ce485d6df2f521b/prosecutor-drops-charges-death-detroit-college-officer](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2c770aa953884ef68ce485d6df2f521b/prosecutor-drops-charges-death-detroit-college-officer))I’m hoping more information comes to light; this is confusing. Did they have the wrong guy? Is there somehow no evidence? WTF? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10112 "2016-12-07T16:24:11Z")
Per the [local ABC affiliate](http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/all-charges-dropped-against-deangelo-davis-in-murder-of-wsu-sgt-collin-rose) > [@](#): > > Deangelo Davis was originally charged in the case. Sources tell 7 Action News surveillance video shows Davis was in a store at the time of the murder. Which is weird because per the [AP](http://bigstory.ap.org/) > [@](#): > > Davis became a suspect in Rose’s shooting almost immediately. In a statement after he was charged, Worthy said Davis was riding a bicycle when Rose stopped him. Rose was shot shortly after requesting help from other officers. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10113 "2016-12-07T16:26:18Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Which is weird because per the [AP](http://bigstory.ap.org/) Yer link is just to the AP front page, eh. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10114 "2016-12-07T20:14:31Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I was wondering about that- was the taser struggle caught on tape or is our just the testimony of the cop who then planted the weapon near his body? A police office would never lie! Except in, you know, all of those cases where they were caught on tape lying. But we should ignore those and treat everything a cop says as gospel. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10115 "2016-12-07T21:08:25Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > A police office would never lie! Except in, you know, all of those cases where they were caught on tape lying. But we should ignore those and treat everything a cop says as gospel. I believe **Smapti** would agree. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10116 "2016-12-07T21:38:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If its a problem with training, then why are cases like this so rare (and they ARE rare)? Why haven’t we seen a rash of unjustified police shootings in South Carolina and around the country? No this was a bad cop and if we stand up to defend all cops good or bad, it gives cops license to be bad. There’s no real reason to believe cases like this are or have ever been rare. What’s rare is a shooting like this being caught on tape pretty clearly and that tape being seen by the public. What’s changed is that we now have ubiquitous, cheap, high-quality video cameras everywhere and widespread internet/social media in place to publish those videos. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10117 "2016-12-07T22:00:12Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > There’s no real reason to believe cases like this are or have ever been rare. What’s rare is a shooting like this being caught on tape pretty clearly and that tape being seen by the public. What’s changed is that we now have ubiquitous, cheap, high-quality video cameras everywhere and widespread internet/social media in place to publish those videos. This is exactly it. Listen to Dave Chappelle or 2Pac and they’ll mention police shootings (“Cops give a damn about a negro. Pull the trigger, kill a nigger he’s a hero”). Wider America is finally seeing that black life is cheap, something black people have known since 1776. Hell, I still remember vividly the exact words my mother used when my brother and I received “the talk” on how to act around police: “You do exactly what they say immediately or else they will kill you and not a damn thing will happen to them.” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10118 "2016-12-07T23:04:36Z")
The mounties have decided [not to wear body-cams](http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/rcmp-abandons-body-cameras-for-now-1.3193944) until the durability and battery life improve. A carefully thought out decision, but a mistaken one IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10119 "2016-12-08T00:26:37Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > This is exactly it. Listen to Dave Chappelle or 2Pac and they’ll mention police shootings (“Cops give a damn about a negro. Pull the trigger, kill a nigger he’s a hero”). Wider America is finally seeing that black life is cheap, something black people have known since 1776. > > Hell, I still remember vividly the exact words my mother used when my brother and I received “the talk” on how to act around police: “You do exactly what they say immediately or else they will kill you and not a damn thing will happen to them.” Yup, and I should have also mentioned the one other thing that’s changed besides (but _because of_) the cameras and the internet. People that are mad as hell about it, know their rights, and are willing to stand there on the sidewalk with their phones up every time they see the police doing their thing, even for someone they don’t know. And though black people have surely bore the brunt of it, I have little doubt that there have been many Walter Scotts of every color. With police shootings, it’s almost like if you’re not blue, you’re black. Ending that kind of shit is in everyone’s best interest, police included. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10120 "2016-12-08T20:19:03Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I was wondering about that- was the taser struggle caught on tape or is our just the testimony of the cop who then planted the weapon near his body? Well the cop did have to go back and get the taser fro the ground to plant it on the dead body but I’m not really sure if anyone can confirm that there was a struggle other than the cop. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10121 "2016-12-08T20:28:39Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The mounties have decided [not to wear body-cams](http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/rcmp-abandons-body-cameras-for-now-1.3193944) until the durability and battery life improve. > > A carefully thought out decision, but a mistaken one IMHO. That is a mistake. The American experience with body cameras is that it exonerates far more cops than it condemns. Body Cams are like guns. Sure it can be used against the cop but its a lot better for the cop to have one than not have one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=505) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=507)