# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 508
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10142 "2016-12-13T18:04:43Z")
> [@](#): > > A 73-year-old man with early stages of dementia was shot and killed Monday by a Bakersfield police officer nine times during a late-night walk despite being unarmed, his son said… > **[Man with dementia fatally shot by police had a crucifix, not a gun, police say](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-unarmed-man-dementia-bakersfield-killed-nine-20161213-story.html)** > > A 73-year-old man in the early stages of dementia was killed by a Bakersfield police officer after a neighbor called 911 and erroneously reported the man was carrying a revolver, authorities said Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10143 "2016-12-13T18:12:25Z")
Killed nine times? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10144 "2016-12-13T18:17:32Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [Man with dementia fatally shot by police had a crucifix, not a gun, police say](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-unarmed-man-dementia-bakersfield-killed-nine-20161213-story.html) > [@](#): > > Police searched the family’s home and cars after the shooting and did not recover a firearm, his son said. What the fuck? 😕 Why in fucking fuck would they search homes and cars for a weapon? Did the police have reasonable cause to believe that the corpse went and hid the weapon? I hope the family didn’t consent to the searches. Someone please lemme know when the FBI is involved, because it sure sounds like a bunch of rights (and one life) got trampled on. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10145 "2016-12-13T20:51:40Z")
So it literally is ‘Shoot first, ask questions later’? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10146 "2016-12-13T23:41:15Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > So it literally is ‘Shoot first, ask questions later’? _Shoot first and find a gun later. No matter how hard you have to try. Maybe have another officer stop by Bear Arms and pick one up so you can get his prints on it. Somehow, find that gun_. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10147 "2016-12-13T23:56:28Z")
Woo! My hometown. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10148 "2016-12-14T03:50:43Z")
Wow, here is a good controversial encounter: some cops fighting the good fight in San Diego. [Cops Allow Police Dog to Bite Naked, Unarmed Man](http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/Cops-Allow-Police-Dog-Bite-Naked-Unarmed-Man-406122445.html). Luckily this only cost the taxpayers ~$400,000 to settle the lawsuit. Not to much to pay to keep the boys in blue on the job, right? I wonder if the handler got a medal. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10149 "2016-12-14T06:41:10Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [Man with dementia fatally shot by police had a crucifix, not a gun, police say](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-unarmed-man-dementia-bakersfield-killed-nine-20161213-story.html) [The AP has more on this story now](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d2a2f44c77714ae5a069503e137e5774/police-man-killed-officer-driveway-didnt-have-gun), and I found this part VERY interesting (bolding mine):[ > [@](#): > > **No gun was found on Serna, only an officer that Martin called difficult to describe**. He gave no further details. > > Earlier at about 4 p.m. on Sunday, another neighbor had encountered Serna, whose hand was in his jacket pocket as though he had a gun. Serna tried to force his way into the house of the neighbor, who called his behavior “bizarre.” Serna left and the neighbor, who had recognized him, did not immediately report the incident. > > Then about eight hours later, the woman who lives across the street from Serna was getting out of a car in her driveway when he came up behind her and asked her to get back into the car. The woman also saw Serna’s hand in his jacket pocket and thought he had a gun. She and a friend she was with ran into the house and **she told her boyfriend, who called police and said a man in the driveway had a revolver and was brandishing it at women** , Martin said. ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d2a2f44c77714ae5a069503e137e5774/police-man-killed-officer-driveway-didnt-have-gun](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d2a2f44c77714ae5a069503e137e5774/police-man-killed-officer-driveway-didnt-have-gun))First, I’m reasonably sure that the word “officer” in the first bolded part should be “object”. I’m curious to know what this could have been that would make it “difficult to describe”. Second, is the person who told police that this man was brandishing a weapon guilty of a crime? It seems to me that his statement is the crux of the biscuit, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10150 "2016-12-14T06:45:45Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Wow, here is a good controversial encounter: some cops fighting the good fight in San Diego. > > [Cops Allow Police Dog to Bite Naked, Unarmed Man](http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/Cops-Allow-Police-Dog-Bite-Naked-Unarmed-Man-406122445.html). > > Luckily this only cost the taxpayers ~$400,000 to settle the lawsuit. Not to much to pay to keep the boys in blue on the job, right? I wonder if the handler got a medal. I found the video on YouTube and could not finish watching it. Those officers should never wear a badge again, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10151 "2016-12-14T06:57:14Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I found the video on YouTube and could not finish watching it. Those officers should never wear a badge again, IMO. They should wear a badge again, akin to the badges Jews wore circa 1939-45. (I couldn’t finish either). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10152 "2016-12-14T08:21:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I found the video on YouTube and could not finish watching it. Those officers should never wear a badge again, IMO. You’d prefer they would have shot him? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10153 "2016-12-14T08:24:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’d prefer they would have shot him? **Smapti** , there was no justification for the dog, nor would there have been justification for shooting him. What part of that escapes you? ETA: Why do you think those were the only two options available to the numerous police officers facing a naked, unarmed man who wouldn’t turn around? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10154 "2016-12-14T08:52:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’d prefer they would have shot him? No, but no doubt if they had, you’d be here defending that too. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10155 "2016-12-14T09:12:26Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > **Smapti** , there was no justification for the dog, nor would there have been justification for shooting him. The part where that’s not true. We’ve got a man who is on drugs, resisting arrest and making threatening gestures and statements. He’s a threat to the officers and the use of force to subdue him is appropriate and justified. > [@](#): > > ETA: Why do you think those were the only two options available to the numerous police officers facing a naked, unarmed man who wouldn’t turn around? They’re the ones that don’t expose the officers to greater risk. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10156 "2016-12-14T14:34:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The part where that’s not true. We’ve got a man who is on drugs, resisting arrest and making threatening gestures and statements. He’s a threat to the officers and the use of force to subdue him is appropriate and justified. > > They’re the ones that don’t expose the officers to greater risk. If 5 officers feel threatened by a naked, unarmed man, who’s only offense is yelling NO! when they tell him to turn around, then they need to work in a less scary profession. Maybe pillow tester? Either way, there’s no excuse for letting the K-9 continue to maul the man after he’s on the ground and handcuffed. The “Stop resisting!” was a nice touch too. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10157 "2016-12-14T16:45:00Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > _Shoot first and find a gun later. No matter how hard you have to try. Maybe have another officer stop by Bear Arms and pick one up so you can get his prints on it. Somehow, find that gun_. The victim did have a crucifix. Do we know for sure that the officer who fired at him seven times wasn’t a vampire? That may have made him feel threatened. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10158 "2016-12-14T17:06:10Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > No, but no doubt if they had, you’d be here defending that too. I don’t think I’ve ever used the phrase “quoted for truth” before, but it applies here. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10159 "2016-12-14T17:07:25Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > The victim did have a crucifix. Do we know for sure that the officer who fired at him seven times wasn’t a vampire? That may have made him feel threatened. I haven’t watched the video. Was it daylight? Maybe he was a reverse vampire. Better safe than sorry. Right? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10160 "2016-12-14T19:43:47Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I haven’t watched the video. Was it daylight? Maybe he was a reverse vampire. Better safe than sorry. Right? The LA Times story says that the police arrived at 12:40 in the a m. No mention was made of silver bullets. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10161 "2016-12-14T22:59:06Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The LA Times story says that the police arrived at 12:40 in the a m. No mention was made of silver bullets. It was made in the afternoon by the full sunlight in the video. For the record, I couldn’t finish it either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=507) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=509)