# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 534
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10662 "2017-06-18T02:13:40Z")
[Sylvester, GA for this one](https://blog.simplejustice.us/2017/06/05/the-900-gropes/), [where cops groped 900 high school students in an ostensible search for drugs yet no drugs were found](http://loweringthebar.net/2017/06/georgia-cops-search-900-students.html). And yeah, “groped” is the word being used, since it’s 99.99999% likely that this was not a legal search.[ > [@](#): > > When asked about the pat down of students, and the notion of probable cause, Hobby said that as long as a school administrator was present, the personal search of the children was legal. > > Maybe Hobby got his legal advice from a twitter lawyer. Maybe he just heard voices in his head. Regardless, this isn’t the law. Not even a little bit. ]([The 900 Gropes | Simple Justice](https://blog.simplejustice.us/2017/06/05/the-900-gropes/))So what happened?[ > [@](#): > > The complaint begins, “[t]his is a civil-rights action … arising from a mass search of 900 students at Worth County High School at the direction of Worth County Sheriff Jeff Hobby.” It alleges that in April, Hobby and about 40 other officers “placed the high school on ‘lockdown’ for four hours,” halted classes, seized students’ cell phones, and conducted a “drug sweep” that involved searching all students, their clothes, bags, classrooms, lockers, and cars. In fact, the complaint says this involved “a hands-on body search” of every student and a degree of inappropriate touching that makes the TSA look like … well, like the TSA at its worst, I guess, but see paragraphs seven and 53–61 if you wish to create your own metaphor. > > According to the complaint, the asserted justification was that Sheriff Hobby had a “target list” of students he suspected of possessing drugs. Number of students on that list: 13. Number of listed students in school that day: three. Number of students searched: 900. > > Drugs found: none. > [@](#): > > According to news reports, the sheriff said “several juveniles” were arrested in March for a series of burglaries, and an investigation found unspecified evidence of “drug activities going on at school.” There was a search of some kind at the school on March 17, which found nothing. But Hobby said he “didn’t think that search was thorough,” so he decided to do his own. The report says police brought drug-sniffing dogs, that each student was patted down, and that students and parents claimed the students were “patted down aggressively.” It also states that this search, too, found nothing. ]([Georgia Cops Allegedly Grope 900 High-School Students, Are Probably in Some Trouble – Lowering the Bar](http://loweringthebar.net/2017/06/georgia-cops-search-900-students.html)) Officials could not (or would not) confirm or deny Miss Balbricker’s involvement. [Here’s the actual court filing](http://www.almcms.com/contrib/content/uploads/sites/292/2017/06/WorthHighComplaint-1.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10663 "2017-06-19T13:09:02Z")
In an update, Jeronimo Yanez, the police officer who shot Philando Castile, has been [acquitted of all charges but fired from his job](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/16/minn-officer-acquitted-of-manslaughter-for-shooting-philando-castile-during-traffic-stop/?utm_term=.a6f524de2844). There were the usual protests and some attempt at shutting down the freeway, but after a dozen or so protesters were arrested that petered out. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10664 "2017-06-19T13:26:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In an update, Jeronimo Yanez, the police officer who shot Philando Castile, has been [acquitted of all charges but fired from his job](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/16/minn-officer-acquitted-of-manslaughter-for-shooting-philando-castile-during-traffic-stop/?utm_term=.a6f524de2844). > > There were the usual protests and some attempt at shutting down the freeway, but after a dozen or so protesters were arrested that petered out. > > Regards, > Shodan A day late and a dollar short, as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10665 "2017-06-20T11:00:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In an update, Jeronimo Yanez, the police officer who shot Philando Castile, has been [acquitted of all charges but fired from his job](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/16/minn-officer-acquitted-of-manslaughter-for-shooting-philando-castile-during-traffic-stop/?utm_term=.a6f524de2844). > > There were the usual protests and some attempt at shutting down the freeway, but after a dozen or so protesters were arrested that petered out. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s worth noting that both black jurors voted to acquit. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10666 "2017-06-20T21:52:37Z")
[Video footage shows Minn. traffic stop that ended with Philando Castile’s death](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/20/video-footage-shows-minn-traffic-stop-that-ended-with-philando-castiles-death/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_pn-castile-420pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.77b86d1e89b3) We all know that people with CC permits love to warn police before they’re about to shoot them. Friggin A. Why are cops such pussies? The moment he heard “gun” he practically started firing. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10667 "2017-06-20T22:47:25Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > [Video footage shows Minn. traffic stop that ended with Philando Castile’s death](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/20/video-footage-shows-minn-traffic-stop-that-ended-with-philando-castiles-death/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_pn-castile-420pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.77b86d1e89b3) > We all know that people with CC permits love to warn police before they’re about to shoot them. > > Friggin A. Why are cops such pussies? The moment he heard “gun” he practically started firing. I just watched the (very disturbing!) video. I’m not sure what Castile was supposed to do differently. He was one of those good guys with a gun, had it licensed and told the cop that he had it. I guess the sequence was the problem? First, the cop asks for his license and registration, then Castile tells him he has a weapon on him, then reached for his license and registration, but the cop freaked because he thought he was reaching for his gun. I guess he should have told the cop that he had the gun and then sat perfectly, absolutely still. That never, ever would have happened if he were a white guy. The cop pulled him over because his “wide nose” matched that of a robbery suspect from a few days prior. So he pulls him over for a broken taillight. What utter bullshit. The cop should be fired if he’s going to react with such pants-wetting fear in such otherwise calm situations. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10668 "2017-06-20T23:34:28Z")
Even law-abiding Negroes shouldn’t have guns. Regards, Whitey ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10669 "2017-06-20T23:37:25Z")
he _ **was** _ [fired](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/16/minn-officer-acquitted-of-manslaughter-for-shooting-philando-castile-during-traffic-stop/?utm_term=.2540052e80f9) mc ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10670 "2017-06-21T00:16:47Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > he _ **was** _ [fired](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/16/minn-officer-acquitted-of-manslaughter-for-shooting-philando-castile-during-traffic-stop/?utm_term=.2540052e80f9) > > mc Oh thank God! That makes everything better. There’s definitely justice in this country (not directed at the poster). So now are we finally able to admit that the NRA is worthless? I mean, isn’t this what they live for? And are we able to admit that the second amendment is for white people? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10671 "2017-06-21T00:27:30Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I just watched the (very disturbing!) video. I’m not sure what Castile was supposed to do differently. He was one of those good guys with a gun, had it licensed and told the cop that he had it. I guess the sequence was the problem? First, the cop asks for his license and registration, then Castile tells him he has a weapon on him, then reached for his license and registration, but the cop freaked because he thought he was reaching for his gun. I guess he should have told the cop that he had the gun and then sat perfectly, absolutely still. > > That never, ever would have happened if he were a white guy. The cop pulled him over because his “wide nose” matched that of a robbery suspect from a few days prior. So he pulls him over for a broken taillight. What utter bullshit. The cop should be fired if he’s going to react with such pants-wetting fear in such otherwise calm situations. And what idiot would _tell_ an officer they had a gun if they intended to shoot the officer with it? ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10672 "2017-06-21T00:29:59Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > And what idiot would _tell_ an officer they had a gun if they intended to shoot the officer with it? With his kid in the back! ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10673 "2017-06-21T00:33:25Z")
A very telling statement from a juror in [this CNN story.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/20/us/philando-castile-shooting-dashcam/index.html) > [@](#): > > According to CNN affiliate WCCO, Ploussard said that when jurors came to understand the definition of “culpable negligence,” they decided Yanez had acted as any other officer would. Basically, as long as officers continue to keep killing people at the slightest provocation, they’re legally entitled to kill people at the slightest provocation. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10674 "2017-06-21T00:39:08Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I just watched the (very disturbing!) video. I’m not sure what Castile was supposed to do differently. He was supposed to not be black. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10675 "2017-06-21T00:53:43Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > He was supposed to not be black. Well, he really fucked up right there, I guess. I probably won’t post too much to this thread because it tends to move too quickly, but I’ll probably look around for the usual suspects to explain why the cop was totally in the right. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10676 "2017-06-21T01:00:15Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > … I guess he should have told the cop that he had the gun and then sat perfectly, absolutely still. I could see that proceeding into a loop of: > [@](#): > > “Show me your license and registration” > “Don’t move” > “Show me your license and registration” > “Don’t move” > “Show me your license and registration” > “Don’t move” Until the cop shoots him for non-compliance either way. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10677 "2017-06-21T02:03:21Z")
[http://www.fox9.com/news/259785003-story](http://www.fox9.com/news/259785003-story) Here’s the jury pool. Yeah, I’m not shocked. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10678 "2017-06-21T02:22:20Z")
I expect that for many I am preaching to the converted, but here goes: You have created a vicious circle for yourselves. Your populace is armed to the teeth, awash in guns, with no other country in the world having anywhere near the same rate of gun ownership. [Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country) Gun ownership is entrenched in your constitution, and proponents such as the NRA are so rabid in their beliefs that they have a religious fervour. So many of your people have been shit on and shot at for so long that your police rightly fear being shot on the job. That has created a paranoid police culture broadly supported by the judicial system and a significant portion of the middle and upper class, which in your country is predominantly white. The paranoid police culture protects itself by routinely shooting first and asking questions later, and obfuscating and/or covering up if needs be. This has created further conflict with the lowest class, which in your country is predominantly black or brown. Your nation was founded on slavery, with roughly half of it fighting bitterly to keep it despite other European powers having such as England having given it up decades previously. Where slavery left off, Jim Crow picked up, with lynchings, beatings, burning of churches, segregationist laws, gerrymandering, race based disproportionate funding for health and education. Where Jim Crow left off, your GOP picked up, from the top right down to local school boards, with race based gerrymandering and race based disproportionate funding, particularly concerning education. When comparing NATO country incarceration rates, you are literally off the chart, bearing no comparison with the other countries. [https://static.prisonpolicy.org/global/incarceration-rates-nato.png](https://static.prisonpolicy.org/global/incarceration-rates-nato.png) You have the second highest incarceration rate in the world, second only to the Seychelles, a country of 92 thousand people, not including the Somalian pirates jailed there. [List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate#Seychelles) Blacks are grossly over-represented in your prison system, and your prison system is brutal. That leaves you facing several inextricably intertwined massive problems. Entrenched racism, with economic and political power held by whites, and blacks being warehoused in the prison system. High barriers to moving up in economic class, hitting blacks the hardest. Entrenched gun fanaticism by whites held as fervently as a fundamentalist holds religious belief, and a country that is awash in guns. If you ever want to join the first world when it comes to having good relationships between the police and the populace, you are going to have to change. Rather than try to do this, you elected Trump. You’re not even a full democracy any more. [http://felipesahagun.es/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Democracy-Index-2016.pdf](http://felipesahagun.es/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Democracy-Index-2016.pdf) Want to pick up your socks? 1. Organize to get out the vote and to make your votes count, and push your politicians constantly. 2. Confront racism at every opportunity. 3. Confront your gun cult at every opportunity. 4. Don’t sit on your fat ass and whinge, and stop deluding yourselves that you are the land of the free, for you are not. Not even close for millions of your citizens. If you work very hard at it, you might be able to turn yourselves around in a couple of generations, and it will be well worth the effort. If you do not, the rest of the first world will continue to pass you by. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10679 "2017-06-21T05:53:17Z")
Nobody who disagrees with you cares. “It’s in the Constitution, what can you do? _shrug_”. (Unfortunately, trying to change it might cause more problems than it solves. Look up constitutional Convention for why.) Or else they’d just dispute the truth of everything you just said. There is no police shooting problem, you see. Black people are just criminals. Anyone can climb the social ladder in America; those who can’t are just lazy. You Europeans are so oppressed, sucking at the teat of your government, you don’t even know what freedom is. This is what we’re working against here. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10680 "2017-06-21T06:44:43Z")
This one is a bit perplexing, > [@"\[the](#): > > ([http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/06/19/25225266/charleena-lyles-victim-of-spd-shooting-remembered-as-life-of-the-party](http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/06/19/25225266/charleena-lyles-victim-of-spd-shooting-remembered-as-life-of-the-party))"]Two Seattle police officers responded to a burglary call from Lyles, who told officers that someone took an Xbox from her home. The audio, taken from an officer’s dash cam, cuts in-and-out. > > “Hey! Get back! Get back!” one of the officers can be heard shouting. “We need help,” one of the officers, maybe the same one, says into a radio. Movement. A child’s cry. Then: Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang. Bang.… > > Seattle Police Department officials say Lyles brandished a knife before the shots went off. Lyles’ family question why the officers resorted to deadly force. “Even if my sister had a knife in her hand, she weighs like nothing, even if she’s soaking wet,” Williams told The Stranger. “There’s no way you could’ve taken a taser and taken her down? There’s no way you could’ve taken a baton and knocked the knife out of her hand?” She was some months pregnant and had issues with her emotional stability. Which is something that the Police should be trained to deal with. In many of these cases, it sounds like the police are the fearful ones. Why can we not keep cowards off the force? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2017, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10681 "2017-06-21T08:16:43Z")
I think this case makes it official - it is now fair game to preemptively open fire on police officers in self-defense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=533) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=535)