# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1061 "2015-03-16T20:19:36Z")
[It’s not just Ferguson.](http://www.thenation.com/article/200345/its-not-just-ferguson) ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1062 "2015-03-16T22:01:04Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > In liberal hippie enclave San Francisco, the cops are probably sensitive to issues of racial diversity, [right](http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Officers-linked-to-racist-texts-were-all-veterans-6134489.php)? > Nice! Goddamn, now that’s RACIST. Those guys make David Duke look like Malcolm X. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1063 "2015-03-16T22:33:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [It’s not just Ferguson.](http://www.thenation.com/article/200345/its-not-just-ferguson) If you don’t want law enforcement used to raise revenue, then either raise taxes to the point where they can pay for all the services you want the government to provide, or abolish those services. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1064 "2015-03-16T22:59:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you don’t want law enforcement used to raise revenue, then either raise taxes to the point where they can pay for all the services you want the government to provide, or abolish those services. > > It’s that simple. Is there some blog you read, or do you come up with this stuff yourself? Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1065 "2015-03-16T23:42:03Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Is there some blog you read, or do you come up with this stuff yourself? Seriously. You have to look at the problem holistically. Why are police departments used to generate revenue? Because there’s a revenue shortage. Why is there a revenue shortage? Because the public demands that the government provide certain services, but refuses to approve the appropriate taxes to fund them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1066 "2015-03-16T23:46:12Z")
Ergo, it’s only natural and right that the police department abuses its authority to extract funds from the public for no other reason than it thinks that it needs more funding. That’s the natural way of things! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1067 "2015-03-16T23:51:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Ergo, it’s only natural and right that the police department abuses its authority to extract funds from the public for no other reason than it thinks that it needs more funding. That’s the natural way of things! It’s not the natural way of things, but it _is_ the inevitable consequence of voting to establish government services and then voting against funding them. But it’s a lot easier to blame the pigs than it is to blame ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1068 "2015-03-16T23:58:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s not the natural way of things, but it _is_ the inevitable consequence of voting to establish government services and then voting against funding them. > > But it’s a lot easier to blame the pigs than it is to blame ourselves. Or to blame lazy politicians who don’t want to show leadership and sell tax increases to the public instead of jumping whenever wealthy donors twitch a finger. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1069 "2015-03-16T23:59:51Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s not the natural way of things, but it _is_ the inevitable consequence of voting to establish government services and then voting against funding them. > > But it’s a lot easier to blame the pigs than it is to blame ourselves. Why not have the fire department burgle homes? They’ve got the ladders and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1070 "2015-03-17T00:02:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Why not have the fire department burgle homes? They’ve got the ladders and stuff. Not there is some OOB thinking. I think the City Manager job in Ferguson is open. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1071 "2015-03-17T00:03:01Z")
Are people _really_ trying to argue against the idea of properly funding police departments to prevent the need for them to raise revenue through fines? Seriously, what the fuck? Do you not realise that they do, in fact, need to be funded from somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1072 "2015-03-17T00:10:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Are people _really_ trying to argue against the idea of properly funding police departments to prevent the need for them to raise revenue through fines? Seriously, what the fuck? Do you not realise that they do, in fact, need to be funded from somewhere? Are _you_ freaking serious? When public services are poorly funded, they cut services or they go into debt. They don’t start shaking down the public. Wait, I forgot the time my first grade home room teacher held us all hostage until our parents passed a property tax hike. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1073 "2015-03-17T00:17:44Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > In liberal hippie enclave San Francisco, the cops are probably sensitive to issues of racial diversity, [right](http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Officers-linked-to-racist-texts-were-all-veterans-6134489.php)? > Nice! I find it hard to believe cops as racist as this would be capable of hiding it, so no one in that department should be shocked by this revelation. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1074 "2015-03-17T00:21:28Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When public services are poorly funded, they cut services or they go into debt. So which would you prefer? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1075 "2015-03-17T00:25:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are _you_ freaking serious? > > When public services are poorly funded, they cut services or they go into debt. They don’t start shaking down the public. > > Wait, I forgot the time my first grade home room teacher held us all hostage until our parents passed a property tax hike. So, you really don’t think police services should be properly funded by the government, then, you’d rather do away with them. You absolute fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1076 "2015-03-17T00:44:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So, you really don’t think police services should be properly funded by the government, then, you’d rather do away with them. You absolute fucking moron. No, I believe that when voters fail to fund the services they want, then they do not get those services. If they then realize they have created a situation that they cannot tolerate, then they vote to raise taxes. The people hired as public servants to provide those services don’t then get to rob individuals in order to fund their jobs. That’s how democracy works. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1077 "2015-03-17T00:55:27Z")
The people have voted to allow laws that let the police raise money through fines. As, so it appears, they are allowed to do. I am suggesting, along with **Smapti** , that it might be better to raise taxes as a means to pay for them. Something that, inexplicably, seems wrong to you. Straight question. Do you thing funding the police from taxes is better than from fines? If so, why are you arguing? ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1078 "2015-03-17T01:01:38Z")
Okay, right. So, we could raise taxes. Or, we could keep them where they are, but cut services (until people complain, or want the services enough to pay for them). Or, and I’m just spit-ballin’ here, we could maybe be creative. Look, for the most part, we’re good with service fees, like, on gas to pay for roads. Okay, not that one, but, you know, service fees. People who _have_ kids should pay more for things like schools, since I’m not using them. So, we’re good with that. And people are okay with things like, parking tickets (as long as they don’t get them). Plus, look, we all know there is a big group of people who we all know are bad. They do bad stuff. I mean, look at how often they get arrested. They don’t pay their fines. And, also, they don’t have any money, so clearly they are layabout riffraff. (okay, when we complain about not having any money to pay taxes, it’s different, okay?) So, what if we decide we want to take the money from _those_ people, who aren’t like us? Then, we would have money, and really, if it’s the cops collecting it, who is going to argue with the cops? If they were innocent, then the cops wouldn’t be talking to them, right? Res ipso fucking locquitar, am I right? Plus, and lets just be fucking honest here, if a cop claims a black man was “walking funny”, he’s gonna have cops from Los Angeles to New York claiming black men walk funny, and that cops haz the scary dangerous jobs. Who the fuck do you think people are gonna believe? A cop, who puts his life on the line EVERY SINGLE DAY, or a funny-walking black man? And hey, if it teaches black people their place, well, bonus, right? We get cash, we get services, we don’t have to raise taxes, no one who matters can complain. All we have to do is find some low lifes who believe that shit, and Bob’s your uncle. (this is not my opinion. I am not falsely presenting it as my own in an effort to troll. But it sure does look like a thought process that would explain a lot) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1079 "2015-03-17T01:04:00Z")
Yes, people have approved all kinds offed that we now understand to be offensive, corrupt, racist and oppressive. We also understand that allowing the justice system to use its law enforcement power to raise funds creates perverse incentives and almost guarantees injustice. And I don’t actually have to say any of this to you because if you personal were subject to this kind of treatment, there would be no question in your mind that it was wrong and why. And in the case of Ferguson it is plainly an outrageous violation of the rights of the black citizens of the city. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1080 "2015-03-17T01:21:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No, I believe that when voters fail to fund the services they want, then they do not get those services. If they then realize they have created a situation that they cannot tolerate, then they vote to raise taxes. > > The people hired as public servants to provide those services don’t then get to rob individuals in order to fund their jobs. > > That’s how democracy works. And the situation we have here is one in which democracy has _failed_, and so the bureaucracy is left with no choice but to fix the problem within the limitations of the law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=55)