# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 540
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10782 "2017-07-02T16:45:19Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I am pretty sure their latest ad wasn’t really targeted at their own demographic, but at us lefties. > > After watching that, I thought to myself “I really need to get a gun. Apparently, they are planning to start a civil war, so I need to be armed.” > > The gun nuts already have all the guns they are going to buy for now, and scaring them won’t really get them to buy more. But, scaring the lefties into thinking the righties are coming after them, that might drum up sales. > > And increasing gun sales is the _only_ objective of the NRA. Just a suggestion - before you lefties start babbling about the numerous things you are clueless about - one of which is the NRA - you really might want to educate yourself first. > **[: About the NRA](https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/)** > > The National Rifle Association is America's longest-standing civil rights organization. Together with our more than five million members, we're proud defenders of history's patriots and diligent protectors of the Second Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10783 "2017-07-02T17:05:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Just a suggestion - before you lefties start babbling about the numerous things you are clueless about - one of which is the NRA - you really might want to educate yourself first. > > [A Brief History of the NRA | National Rifle Association](https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/) Before you criticize others, you should look to yourself. You apparently have not seen [this ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrnIVVWtAag) then? Do you actually have a defense for it? Does this ad represent any of the “values” that the NRA claims to have? The only reason for an ad like that is to either try to foment a civil war, or to drive gun sales. Can you point to any public education, gun safety or training info in the ad? You link me to their own PR glurge as proof that the NRA has objectives other than increasing gun sales, and even that piece is all about increasing gun sales. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10784 "2017-07-02T18:25:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [They commented officially two days after the shooting, and one of their members commented unofficially on the ruling](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/20/philando-castile-shooting-nra-response-colion-noir). > > Not that it will make any difference. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@](#): > > “Rest assured,” the statement added, “the NRA will have more to say once all the facts are known.” Are there facts that are still unknown? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10785 "2017-07-02T19:58:58Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I fully intend to give them more money if the anti gun folks try anything like that again. Like it or not, I’m stuck with the NRA as the only effective advocate for gun rights in this country. Do you agree with everything the organizations you support do? > > Btw, what dangerous wingnuttery? The ridiculous hyperbolic fear-mongering and outright lies – like Obama is unAmerican/anti-American, sympathizes with our enemies, wants to take away guns from Americans, rampant fear-mongering against “smart guns”, insistence that background checks are bans and constitute a registry of gun owners, etc. > **[NRA Targets Obama - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/nra-targets-obama/)** > > Summary A National Rifle Association advertising campaign distorts Obama's position on gun control beyond recognition. The NRA is circulating printed material and running TV ads making unsubstantiated claims that Obama plans to ban use of firearms... Wayne LaPierre has said “There’s no telling how far President Obama will go to dismantle our freedoms and reshape America into an America that you and I will not even recognize.” That kind of bullshit directly harms our country, and by contributing money, you are a small part of that harm. These aren’t incidental or side-conversations the NRA are having – this is their central message – hateful lies and exaggeration, and it’s harmful to America. You are helping make this happen, and IMO you should be (in a small way) ashamed of yourself for doing so. What little good they might do in protecting gun rights is overwhelmingly outweight by all the bullshit they’ve spread. Lots and lots of Americans think Obama and the Democratic party are enemies of America because of factually-false rhetoric like this, and you’re helping them do it. In a small way, shame on you. If you think the incredibly minor threat to gun rights that gun control advocates actually constitute outweighs the massive threat to America that bullshit wingnut rhetoric constitutes, then your priorities or your understanding of the realities of American politics are seriously out of whack, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10786 "2017-07-02T20:09:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The ridiculous hyperbolic fear-mongering and outright lies – like Obama is unAmerican/anti-American, sympathizes with our enemies, wants to take away guns from Americans, rampant fear-mongering against “smart guns”, insistence that background checks are bans and constitute a registry of gun owners, etc. > > [NRA Targets Obama - FactCheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/nra-targets-obama/) > > Wayne LaPierre has said “There’s no telling how far President Obama will go to dismantle our freedoms and reshape America into an America that you and I will not even recognize.” > > That kind of bullshit directly harms our country, and by contributing money, you are a small part of that harm. These aren’t incidental or side-conversations the NRA are having – this is their central message – hateful lies and exaggeration, and it’s harmful to America. > > You are helping make this happen, and IMO you should be (in a small way) ashamed of yourself for doing so. What little good they might do in protecting gun rights is overwhelmingly outweight by all the bullshit they’ve spread. Lots and lots of Americans think Obama and the Democratic party are enemies of America because of factually-false rhetoric like this, and you’re helping them do it. In a small way, shame on you. > > If you think the incredibly minor threat to gun rights that gun control advocates actually constitute outweighs the massive threat to America that bullshit wingnut rhetoric constitutes, then your priorities or your understanding of the realities of American politics are seriously out of whack, IMO. To be fair, it is pretty much a knee-jerk reaction that anytime you hear about some gun-nut shooting up a bunch of kids in an elementary school, just like many people will make donations to the red cross, first responders, or to an anti-violence campaign, NRA members need to make a donation to the NRA to protect the guns. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10787 "2017-07-03T03:12:38Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > The NRA bills themselves as a civil rights organization. Their response to the Castile shooting proves that is a lie. They are for rights for white people. Is this the type of organization you want to be associated with? This is OK with you? Why would you think it was OK with me when i am the one that started posting about how their reaction to Philando Castile was NOT OK with me? And they don’t bill themselves as a civil rights organization any more than NARAL bills themselves as a civil rights organization. They are both primarily concerned with a single right. If you can point me to another gun rights organization that is as effective as the NRA at protecting second amendment rights, please don’t keep it a secret. But what you seem to be saying that I can’t support racial justice while also supporting an organization that protects another critical right (an organization that doesn’t really seem to give a shit about racial justice even if its not doing anything to create more racial inequality). The fact that the NRA is not a good ally in fighting against racial inequality doesn’t mean they can’t be good allies in fighting against attacks on the second amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10788 "2017-07-03T03:24:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > In what way were gun manufacturers possibly undermining gun rights? The only things I can think of involve them selling fewer guns. So boycotting to get them to sell more guns would be increasing gun sales. S&W was perceived as having sold out the cause in order to get favorable treatment from the government. A boycott ensued. > **[NRA-ILA | The Smith & Wesson Sellout](https://www.nraila.org/articles/20000320/the-smith-wesson-sellout)** > > On April 27, 1999, President Bill Clinton officially declared his Administration's war on American gun owners by identifying his enemy: "another culture in our country, that I think has gotten confused about its objectives (the) huge hunting and... > [@](#): > > You also admit they use fear tactics to scare people into giving them money. That’s a big red flag to me. They are drumming up false scenarios to scare people into contributing. If they have a legitimate cause, they shouldn’t need to use an underhanded tactic like fear. You must not be on Democratic donor mailing lists because its fucking armageddon every other Tuesday and I must simply MUST send them money to fight against Trump. I must donate money to prevent all sorts of horrible things that are NEVER going to happen. Is the Democratic party also lacking a legitimate cause? > [@](#): > > Gun rights is one of those rights that makes no sense to the rest of the world, so I don’t really regard them as legitimate. So you’re not really arguing in good faith. You are just taking pot shots because a gun rights guy is admitting disappointment at the NRA? > [@](#): > > I think the NRA creates the concept out of the whole cloth. And a piece of paper called the constitution. The fountain of all modern democracy in the world today. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t make sense in a modern world, so they have to use underhanded tactics to keep it going. OR they’re like every other fund raising organization that exaggerates the crisis to get more money from people who care about their cause. > [@](#): > > Self defense rights–those make sense. But gun rights? Specific rights for a specific type of weapon? That’s just a historical holdover, and not anything legitimate. > > It’s also why I think hate speech laws are good. We’re the only country that freaks out about them. When other democracies function perfectly well without something we treat as sacrosanct, than I argue that we are wrong. Effective self defense is easier with guns than without them. The right to keep and bear arms is not limited to guns. When they invent light sabers and phaser pistols, it will apply to them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10789 "2017-07-03T03:28:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why would you think it was OK with me when i am the one that started posting about how their reaction to Philando Castile was NOT OK with me? > > And they don’t bill themselves as a civil rights organization any more than NARAL bills themselves as a civil rights organization. They are both primarily concerned with a single right. > > If you can point me to another gun rights organization that is as effective as the NRA at protecting second amendment rights, please don’t keep it a secret. But what you seem to be saying that I can’t support racial justice while also supporting an organization that protects another critical right (an organization that doesn’t really seem to give a shit about racial justice even if its not doing anything to create more racial inequality). The fact that the NRA is not a good ally in fighting against racial inequality doesn’t mean they can’t be good allies in fighting against attacks on the second amendment. I’m saying that you recognize the NRA is fundamentally racist, and you continue to support them. You have never effectively argued that they are not racists, just that you accept their racism as a cost of their Second Amendment advocacy. You seem to recognize that the NRA only supports Second Amendment issues insofar as they benefit white people. An organization that continues to embrace Ted Nugent and fails to back up Philando Castile is, as now should be obvious to everyone, a tool of a racist status quo. You give these people money. The next time someone calls you a racist, consider that it may well be because you associate yourself with racists. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10790 "2017-07-03T03:43:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, I am very aware of the NRA’s activities. > > And all of their activities are in furtherance of increasing gun sales. > > Sure, they do safety programs and such, but that is just in furtherance of greater gun sales. They claim to be a civil rights organization, but the only civil rights they are concerned about is to make sure that people can buy guns. Yes, the right to keep and bear arms requires the ability to buy guns. But their purpose is not to increase gun sales. Like I said, I think the NRA would prefer a country where everyone household had a gun over a country where a third of households each owned ten guns. > [@](#): > > Can you really justify the latest ad as anything but an ad to get people to go out and buy guns? What public education was served by it? What gun safety was learned from watching their PSA? That ad was made because gun sales are down; they plummeted after president wtf took office because they could no longer scare people with “Obama’s going to take your guns” rhetoric. Now it’s civil war rhetoric. Anything to get those guns off the shelves. Are you talking about this ad? > **[The NRA recruitment video that is even upsetting gun owners](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/29/the-nra-recruitment-video-that-is-even-upsetting-gun-owners/?utm_term=.752f06a6aa24)** > > The video has racked up millions of views. Its a recruitment ad. I don’t think its a “go out and buy another gun” ad. Like it or not (and i don’t), guns have become a partisan issue. It didn’t have to be but Democrats have insisted on it and the Republicans were more than happy to oblige them and pick up votes in swing states. > [@](#): > > And this is an organization that you actively support. You didn’t just give them $1,000 for a lifetime membership, but you donate money to them any time you think that there’s a chance that some little gun somewhere might be in danger of not finding its forever home, and this donation of yours comes after some gun nut goes and kills a bunch of school children and teachers. They don’t give one shit about you. They don’t give one shit about your safety, or the safety of your family. They only care that you go out and you buy as many guns as you can afford, or more. Then they use your money to scare you into giving them more money. So wait, you think there was no threat to gun rights in the aftermath of Sandy Hook? They were about to pass one of the most retarded forms of gun control we have seen in our history. Gun rights may not be important to you just as abortion rights are not important to the religious right but it is a right all the same and if you want to start picking and choosing rights based on who is in power then I don’t think anyone wins. > [@](#): > > NARAL’s only objective _is_ to increase the number of options for women who do not wish to continue their pregnancy, so that is a bad analogy on your part. If NARAL put out a scare ad equivalent to the NRA ad talking about how if you don’t get an abortion, the right wingers will take over the country, then I would say that they are wanting to increase abortions as well. Let me know when that happens, and then you can try playing the equivalency game again, on this analogy, your equivalency comes up…false. Really? That ad said “go out and buy a gun” to you? It didn’t say “join the NRA” or “send money to the NRA”? The NRA want to protect the right to get a gun just as NARAL wants to protect the right to get an abortion and NARAL puts out plenty of scary things to convince you that we are on the precipice of losing the right to abortions. Same thing. > [@](#): > > And I still feel that ad was targeted towards us on the left. So now your feelings are proof of something? > [@](#): > > Gun nut hears that civil war is coming, and he goes and stokes his arsenal and fantasizes about the day. He’s ready, he doesn’t need any more guns. (Not saying he may not buy more, but that’s just because he has a collector’s fetish, not because he actually needs more to fight this war that he dreams of.) Oh so you think that Ad was intended to drum up gun sales from the folks who are trying to implement gun control laws? Wow. > [@](#): > > Normal moderate or person on the left hears that ad, and realizes that the right is planning a civil war, and he is _not_ ready for it, he needs to go out and buy a gun or three to protect himself, his family and friends from the crazy gun nuts starting a civil war. Did you go out and buy a gun because of that ad? Or do you just FEEL like that was what they were trying to get you to do? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10791 "2017-07-03T03:54:20Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I’m saying that you recognize the NRA is fundamentally racist, and you continue to support them. You have never effectively argued that they are not racists, just that you accept their racism as a cost of their Second Amendment advocacy. You seem to recognize that the NRA only supports Second Amendment issues insofar as they benefit white people. An organization that continues to embrace Ted Nugent and fails to back up Philando Castile is, as now should be obvious to everyone, a tool of a racist status quo. > > You give these people money. > > The next time someone calls you a racist, consider that it may well be because you associate yourself with racists. So as a minority, I must be willing to turn my back on the only effective advocate for gun rights to prove that I am not a racist? I associate with plenty of racists. What fucking nirvana do you live in that you can go even one fucking day without associating with a racist? I’m starting to think you might be white. Thats not an insult just an observation about people who think that racism is isolated enough that it can be avoided by choosing the right friends or something. The NRA is FAR from being a pillar of institutional racism. There are a lot of racists in the NRA because gun culture is more prevalent in places where racism thrives (more rural areas, the south, etc. but there is no more than background levels of racism at the gun ranges in northern virginia. There is no more than background levels of racism if you go to the suburbs of more liberal cities. Racism and guns are correlation without causation. There is no necessary link between guns and racism. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10792 "2017-07-03T03:54:48Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I’m saying that you recognize the NRA is fundamentally racist, and you continue to support them. You have never effectively argued that they are not racists, just that you accept their racism as a cost of their Second Amendment advocacy. You seem to recognize that the NRA only supports Second Amendment issues insofar as they benefit white people. An organization that continues to embrace Ted Nugent and fails to back up Philando Castile is, as now should be obvious to everyone, a tool of a racist status quo. > > You give these people money. > > The next time someone calls you a racist, consider that it may well be because you associate yourself with racists. No, I think you missed the boat there. You can believe an organization has flaws and still support it. **Damuri Ajashi** has never said he thinks the NRA is a perfect organization, just that they are the best, he knows of, at protecting the right of gun owners. Now if he’s ever offered the chance to do something about the apparent problems in the organization and chooses not to, or says that there is nothing wrong, then you might have a legit complaint about him. I happen to think the govt of the USA has not done enough to protect the rights of minorities (racial, sexual, gender etc). and I think that occasionally out and out bigoted people are elected to positions of authority. But I see no need for myself or anyone else to denounce the govt as useless, and renounce their relationship with it. eta: i see he beat me to it! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10793 "2017-07-03T03:59:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So as a minority, I must be willing to turn my back on the only effective advocate for gun rights to prove that I am not a racist? > > I associate with plenty of racists. What fucking nirvana do you live in that you can go even one fucking day without associating with a racist? I’m starting to think you might be white. Thats not an insult just an observation about people who think that racism is isolated enough that it can be avoided by choosing the right friends or something. > > The NRA is FAR from being a pillar of institutional racism. There are a lot of racists in the NRA because gun culture is more prevalent in places where racism thrives (more rural areas, the south, etc. but there is no more than background levels of racism at the gun ranges in northern virginia. There is no more than background levels of racism if you go to the suburbs of more liberal cities. Racism and guns are correlation without causation. There is no necessary link between guns and racism. There is no necessary link between guns and racism, and yet you contribute money to an organization that you recognize ignores the rights of black people due to their race, as well as spreading hateful lies about Obama. There is a link between that and racism, and yet you’re okay with this enough to give them money. Shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10794 "2017-07-03T13:34:31Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Florida deputy stops unarmed black guy on bike, shoots him 4 seconds later](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-florida-deputy-shoots-dontrell-stephens-20150424-story.html#page=1) > > The bicyclist is now paralyzed from the waist down. > > The officer never faced any charges because the state’s attorney office determined it was a “good shot”. > > There’s video so you can judge for yourself. I thought this one justified an update. The officer, Adams Lin, was later found liable in a federal civil suit and the jury awarded his victim $22 million (for which Lin and his employer are joint liable). The county and Lin appealed, but the county neglected to post an appeal bond, so [all of Lin’s stuff has been taken by U.S. Marshals](http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/marshals-seize-pbso-deputy-property-pay-shooting-victim/wru3aQ1SRpWqsz9hvWWjKP/). In the meantime, Lin was promoted to sergeant. There is some sloppy reporting in the article which suggests that the county and Lin can’t be ordered to pay more than $200K against the jury verdict, but that cap is for state law cases and doesn’t apply to a §1983 claim. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10795 "2017-07-03T13:58:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I thought this one justified an update. The officer, Adams Lin, was later found liable in a federal civil suit and the jury awarded his victim $22 million (for which Lin and his employer are joint liable). The county and Lin appealed, but the county neglected to post an appeal bond, so [all of Lin’s stuff has been taken by U.S. Marshals](http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/marshals-seize-pbso-deputy-property-pay-shooting-victim/wru3aQ1SRpWqsz9hvWWjKP/). In the meantime, Lin was promoted to sergeant. > > There is some sloppy reporting in the article which suggests that the county and Lin can’t be ordered to pay more than $200K against the jury verdict, but that cap is for state law cases and doesn’t apply to a §1983 claim. Just realized there was some other sloppy reporting: the sheriff’s office wasn’t found liable at all. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10796 "2017-07-03T14:21:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So as a minority, I must be willing to turn my back on the only effective advocate for gun rights to prove that I am not a racist? > > I associate with plenty of racists. What fucking nirvana do you live in that you can go even one fucking day without associating with a racist? I’m starting to think you might be white. Thats not an insult just an observation about people who think that racism is isolated enough that it can be avoided by choosing the right friends or something. > > The NRA is FAR from being a pillar of institutional racism. There are a lot of racists in the NRA because gun culture is more prevalent in places where racism thrives (more rural areas, the south, etc. but there is no more than background levels of racism at the gun ranges in northern virginia. There is no more than background levels of racism if you go to the suburbs of more liberal cities. Racism and guns are correlation without causation. There is no necessary link between guns and racism. There’s “associating with” on the sense of casual contact, then there’s “associating with” in the sense of providing material support to. I’m going to make one more post on this, then I’ll drop it. The NRA is not “flawed”. It is fundamentally racist as an organization. This has been proven by its response to the Castile shooting. And, yes, I’m saying that if you’re a member of a racist organization, the way to prove that you’re not really a racist is to stop being a member of the racist organization. As far as how to advance your political priorities without funding a bunch of racist fucks, I have no idea. But maybe if you’re having trouble finding gun rights organizations that aren’t racist fucks, that may tell you something about the gun rights debate. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10797 "2017-07-03T14:38:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Just realized there was some other sloppy reporting: the sheriff’s office wasn’t found liable at all. And there’s this: > [@](#): > > “The sheriff was offered the opportunity to protect his employee and avoid the seizure,” Scarola said. “He declined not to do it.” “He declined not to do it”? Me talk pretty one day? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10798 "2017-07-03T15:09:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There is no necessary link between guns and racism, and yet you contribute money to an organization that you recognize ignores the rights of black people due to their race, as well as spreading hateful lies about Obama. There is a link between that and racism, and yet you’re okay with this enough to give them money. > > Shame on you. Let me throw that back at you: There is no necessary link between BLM and rioting, and yet you support an organization that you recognize has been involved with and incited riots. There is a link between that and rioting, and yet you’re okay with this enough to support them. Shame on you. > [@](#): > > spreading hateful lies about Obama Like it or not, guns have become a partisan issue. Mostly through the efforts of the left. Partisans spread lies about each other. To an outside observer, you would think that Trump was the worst president we have had in recent history and yet he has done almost nothing compared to Bush, who started a war that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. So perhaps you can tell me what “hateful lies” they have spread about Obama? > [@](#): > > an organization that you recognize ignores the rights of black people due to their race Where do I say that the NRA ignores the rights of black people? I think you are reading way more into my posts than you should. The fact that they don’t raise a fuss about Philando Castile when I think they would have raised a fuss about some white CCW doesn’t mean they ignore the rights of minorities to the protections of the second amendment. > [@](#): > > and yet you’re okay with this enough to give them money So when I complain about the NRA’s double standard wrt whites vs blacks getting shot, you think that means I am OK with that disparity? I think that’s a weird way to interpret my statements. Or does the fact that I don’t immediately sever any and all association I have with the NRA mean that I fully endorse everything about them? You support BLM IIRC. They have incited and participated in riots that have ruined families and even resulted in deaths. And yet you’re OK with this. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10799 "2017-07-03T15:32:54Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > There’s “associating with” on the sense of casual contact, then there’s “associating with” in the sense of providing material support to. So when i give them that money, they use it to lobby congress and the states to protect the second amendment. They don’t use it to advance any racist agendas so what is it about giving them money that makes means I am supporting racism? If I give money to planned parenthood to perform breast examinations, am I supporting abortion? No? Then how is giving money to NRA to advocate for second amendment rights the same thing as supporting racists? > [@](#): > > I’m going to make one more post on this, then I’ll drop it. The NRA is not “flawed”. It is fundamentally racist as an organization. This has been proven by its response to the Castile shooting. And, yes, I’m saying that if you’re a member of a racist organization, the way to prove that you’re not really a racist is to stop being a member of the racist organization. Do you have a cite for the statement that the NRA is a fundamentally racist organization? 7% of the NRA board is black The senate is at 6% The Fortune 500 boards of directors is at 8% I don’t know that this means anything but they are about as white as some pretty powerful institutions in America. > [@](#): > > As far as how to advance your political priorities without funding a bunch of racist fucks, I have no idea. But maybe if you’re having trouble finding gun rights organizations that aren’t racist fucks, that may tell you something about the gun rights debate. It tells me that guns rights are very important to people in rural areas and the south. Turns out that that is where a lot of racists live. I bet I could find a high correlation between farmers and racism. Is farming racist too? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10800 "2017-07-03T15:54:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I thought this one justified an update. The officer, Adams Lin, was later found liable in a federal civil suit and the jury awarded his victim $22 million (for which Lin and his employer are joint liable). The county and Lin appealed, but the county neglected to post an appeal bond, so [all of Lin’s stuff has been taken by U.S. Marshals](http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/marshals-seize-pbso-deputy-property-pay-shooting-victim/wru3aQ1SRpWqsz9hvWWjKP/). That story was from January 11. A week later, a magistrate [ordered](http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/magistrate-orders-seized-goods-returned-sheriff-deputy/BIMaKYJ88j1D9O1X2eZ22N/) that Lin’s belongings be returned to him. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10801 "2017-07-03T16:22:24Z")
Huh. Thanks for pointing that out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=539) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=541)