# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 542
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10822 "2017-07-07T18:12:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Oh. I thought I was saying that we would not agree that the NRA wasn’t racist just because NRA leaders reject racism. I was further saying that rejections of racism didn’t seem to get much mileage when the Tea Party leaders were rejecting it. So why do we give the words of BLM leaders so much weight when they reject violence and yet almost every riot was linked to a BLM event or activists. You’ll need a cite for a claim like “almost every riot was linked to a BLM event or activists”. NRA leaders are still specifically ignoring Castile and the plight of black gun owners in America, which (again) is _by far the greatest threat to any gun owners in America_, while most BLM events have no violence, and all BLM leaders have specifically rejected and condemned violence. > [@](#): > > Wait, are you saying that the blacks in the 1950s and 1960s were “consistently and repeatedly subject to brutalization and dehumanization” or that blacks today are “consistently and repeatedly subject to brutalization and dehumanization”? I think you paint a much bleaker picture of how blacks are treated today than the facts justify. Things are significantly better now, and yet black people are still consistently and repeatedly (if less frequently) subject to brutalization and dehumaniztion in America. Things were really, really bad, and have improved, and are still really bad. We’ve gone from an F+ (if slavery was an F-) to a D, perhaps. > [@](#): > > Once again, the riots in Baltimore were against a government where the cops were largely minorities, the police chiefs were mostly black, the city council was mostly black and the mayor was black. What inhumane treatment was this almost entirely black government imposing on their black residents that made rioting inevitable? The race of those in government matters very, very little; just as the race of police officers has little to do with how black people are treated by cops. The inhumane treatment in Baltimore was similar to the mistreatment elsewhere in America. > [@](#): > > I support BLM more now than I have in the past. I never thought they were an absolute negative. I acknowledged that they probably accelerated the adoption of body cams by police across the country. But their use of violence as a method of getting what they wanted (whether it was leverage against governments or to get attention) made them unsupportable. Let me know when the NRA starts riots. I’ll drop that membership in a second but you are saying I should surrender membership and ability to vote for change in an organization for not speaking out about Philando Castile when you wouldn’t even condemn an organization that is at the center of riots across the country. They didn’t use violence as a method of anything – they recognized, correctly, that violence hurts their cause, and they specifically rejected and condemned violence, even when violence very occasionally broke out at or near a small number of their events. > [@](#): > > So is that what you are saying happened? There were riots in the city of Baltimore based on the death of Freddie Gray at the hands of Baltimore Police (including black officers) led by black police chief in a city with a mostly black city council and a black mayor because there might be bad conditions elsewhere in the state that had the 4th highest rate of Democratic votes after Hawaii, DC and California? See above. > [@](#): > > You are misquoting and taking MLK Jr. out of context. Do you really think MLK would excuse the BLM riots in a country with a black president, the civil rights act the voting rights act, 3 black senators, and 50 black congressmen? You should be ashamed of yourself for twisting MLK’s words to fit your agenda. MLK wouldn’t excuse any riots and neither do I. I condemn and reject such violence. MLK, however, recognized that such violence is much more likely to occur when brutalization is relatively common and tolerated by broader society, and just as MLK rejected and condemned violence even though it very occaisionally broke out at 60s CR events, today’s BLM leaders reject and condemn the violence (that’s significantly lesser than 60s violence) that occasionally breaks out during modern protests. Your assertions about BLM is mostly wrong. Much more troubling is your casual defense of an organization that is supposedly dedicated to gun rights, yet conspicuously and consistently ignores what is by far the greatest threat to gun owners in America – the threat from law enforcement and broader society that black gun owners face. That you support such an organization reflects very poorly on you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10823 "2017-07-07T18:30:19Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Sure, they helped draft a law that would hinder the Black Panthers without really imposing a burden on other gun owners. Just as they helped black veterans in the South arm themselves and train their black neighbors to use firearms. The NRA simply isn’t as racist as you want to believe but its more racist than I thought. So it’s more racist than you thought… at what point is it too racist for you to support? > [@](#): > > So I’ll ask again, other than Philando Castile, can you point to other CCW black men that were seemingly unjustly killed by a cop? I can point to white CCW holders that were unjustly killed by cops without much comment by the NRA (e.g. Erik Scott, west point grad veteran). You sure you aren’t believing stuff being sold to you by the same folks that brought you assault weapons bans? Not necessarily all CCW, but gun owners/users: Castile, Alton Sterling, and Marissa Alexander (convicted for firing a warning shot at her abusive partner) all come to mind – also Clarence Daniels (who wasn’t killed, at least), and Mark Hughes who was falsely linked to the Dallas shooting for open carrying. The NRA has been silent on all of these, by my extensive googling. Erik Scott isn’t comparable – he took his gun out and wasn’t cooperating, while Castile was cooperating and was trying to obey the officer by getting his wallet. > [@](#): > > Why do you keep believing the gun control outlets that tried to convince you that assault weapons bans were a good idea? No idea what you’re referring to. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10824 "2017-07-07T18:36:20Z")
I can’t find any justification backed up by cites for the claim that the NRA helped arm and train black veterans and citizens after the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10825 "2017-07-07T22:00:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In a functional democracy, there is no excuse for violence no matter how worthy the cause. So when is the USA going to get around to being a functional democracy? [It is a flawed democracy, not a full democracy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index) And as far as violence goes, if you want to reduce violence, then cut back, way back, on guns rather than constitutionally enshrine them, and deal with the race-based poverty issue rather than marginalize, ghettoize, and kill blacks. You should be ashamed of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10826 "2017-07-09T01:11:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Things are significantly better now, and yet black people are still consistently and repeatedly (if less frequently) subject to brutalization and dehumaniztion in America. Things were really, really bad, and have improved, and are still really bad. We’ve gone from an F+ (if slavery was an F-) to a D, perhaps. We recently had a two term Black President and we have gone from F+ to a D? I don’t think we’re going to agree on how much progress the civil rights movement has made. > [@](#): > > The race of those in government matters very, very little; just as the race of police officers has little to do with how black people are treated by cops. The inhumane treatment in Baltimore was similar to the mistreatment elsewhere in America. These are the people in power. What youa re saying is that the race of the people in power is not relevant. That a city controlled by black people was treating blacks inhumanely on account of their race. It seems to me that if blacks can’t treat blacks humanely, there may not be a solution to the problems that you see. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10827 "2017-07-09T01:29:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So it’s more racist than you thought… at what point is it too racist for you to support? When they actually engage in racism. At what point does BLM become too violent for you? > [@](#): > > Not necessarily all CCW, but gun owners/users: Castile, Alton Sterling, and Marissa Alexander (convicted for firing a warning shot at her abusive partner) all come to mind – also Clarence Daniels (who wasn’t killed, at least), and Mark Hughes who was falsely linked to the Dallas shooting for open carrying. The NRA has been silent on all of these, by my extensive googling. Erik Scott isn’t comparable – he took his gun out and wasn’t cooperating, while Castile was cooperating and was trying to obey the officer by getting his wallet. And none of those other examples of yours are remotely comparable to Castile. BTW, why do you think that Erik Scott pulled his gun and was uncooperative? Have you seen video or are you taking the cop’s word for it? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10828 "2017-07-09T01:44:31Z")
I hate to break up this lover’s quarrel - you two really need to get a room, or at least another thread. But back to the op: [Police Kill Nearly 25 Dogs Each Day](https://www.thenation.com/article/police-kill-nearly-25-dogs-each-day/) > [@](#): > > . . . illustrates, puppycide is yet another symptom of the much larger and devastating national malady of wanton police violence. It is a further tear in the fragile trust between civilians and the people we count on to keep us safe. And it is yet more evidence that our increasingly militarized police forces—tricked out in SWAT gear, tensed in a perpetual state of war—are so many decades and policies away from what policing ought to be. . . .If postal workers can handle daily confrontations with dogs without resorting to lethal force, surely police officers can learn alternative tactics as well. mc ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10829 "2017-07-09T01:53:41Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > So when is the USA going to get around to being a functional democracy? [URL=“[The Economist Democracy Index - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)”] It is a flawed democracy, not a full democracy. America is a flawed democracy because the folks who publish the Economist say so? Maybe. Their definition of flawed economy is: nations where elections are fair and free and basic civil liberties are honored but may have issues (e.g. media freedom infringement). Nonetheless, these nations have significant faults in other democratic aspects, including underdeveloped political culture, low levels of participation in politics, and issues in the functioning of governance. How do you get from that to the US not being a functional democracy (and BTW USA got 7.98 and needed an 8 to be a "Full Democracy according to the Economist folks, they share this scarlet letter of flawed democracy with Japan, Italy, France, South Korea, and Israel among others). The fact of the matter is that violence is not justified in a functional democracy and the USA is a functional democracy? > [@](#): > > And as far as violence goes, if you want to reduce violence, then cut back, way back, on guns rather than constitutionally enshrine them, and deal with the race-based poverty issue rather than marginalize, ghettoize, and kill blacks. How do you propose we cut back, way back, on guns in a way that would reduce violence in any significant way? Given that the majority of gun violence is committed by people who cannot legally possess guns, what law do you think would convince these people who possess guns illegally to surrender them? Or are you just sayisfied to see the total number of guns outstanding regardless of the fact that guns protect minorities and the poor when the police can’t or won’t. > [@](#): > > You should be ashamed of yourself. I don’t really know you well enough for that statement to have much impact with me. You simply don’t have the credibility or moral authority for that statement to mean anything. There is a pretty short list of posters on this board that can get away with that, and maybe you’re a wise person and not just another member of the liberal echo chamber choir. But I don’t recall you ever striking me as much more than a member of the choir. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10830 "2017-07-09T12:06:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > These are the people in power. What youa re saying is that the race of the people in power is not relevant. That a city controlled by black people was treating blacks inhumanely on account of their race. It seems to me that if blacks can’t treat blacks humanely, there may not be a solution to the problems that you see. It’s not about can’t – it’s about what’s happening now. That’s “don’t”, not “can’t”. Racism in society can cause anyone to have bias, even against people of their own race. Racism also doesn’t have anything to do with general incompetence or graft or other government disfunctionality. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When they actually engage in racism. At what point does BLM become too violent for you? You just said they were more racist than you thought. So they’re more racist than you thought, but they don’t actually engage in racism? BLM would become too violent if they actually promoted or engaged in violence rather than universally condemning it. > [@](#): > > And none of those other examples of yours are remotely comparable to Castile. How convenient for your argument. If they didn’t, would you just find another excuse, or would that be the last straw for your support for the NRA? > [@](#): > > BTW, why do you think that Erik Scott pulled his gun and was uncooperative? Have you seen video or are you taking the cop’s word for it? There is no video, which by itself makes it uncomparable to Castile. There was video that demonstrated that Castile was shot by a jumpy cop who behaved very poorly, and the NRA said nothing. Just as it did for other instances of black gun owners shot or otherwise treated unjustly. Taking into account for their past support of gun control measures that were specifically targeted against black people, their fear-mongering rhetoric since, and their present conspicuous refusal to say anything about black gun owners mistreated, it seems entirely reasonable to me to strongly suspect that the NRA is not interested in the rights of black gun owners ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10831 "2017-07-09T15:33:33Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > I hate to break up this lover’s quarrel - you two really need to get a room, or at least another thread. But back to the op: > > [Police Kill Nearly 25 Dogs Each Day](https://www.thenation.com/article/police-kill-nearly-25-dogs-each-day/) > > mc Which, this behavior is another example of why people are mistrusting of the police. You don’t have to kill a person in order to oppress them. Coming onto your property without a warrant or even probable cause, and shooting your dog dead is what you do when you want to make sure that the population knows to stay in its place, that the police can and will commit violence upon you and ours for any reason they feel. Your article, and any real research on the subject does not really show how many k9 shootings are “justified”, and I grant that probably the majority of them are, just as sadly, most of the shootings of people are justified. But that just makes more egregious the callous way that the police treat those in the community they are supposed to be serving when they do hurt or kill people or animals who were posing them no threat. In the example in the article, the police came onto property without permission, warrant, or even probable cause, just a suspicion that turned out to be utterly without merit (and probably thought of afterward), did not announce their presence, and when the family dog went to see who was coming onto the property, shot it dead. I do wonder if the police are actually aware that their actions are furthering the divide between them and their community. If they are not, then they need to get a wake up, and know that what they are doing is not helping, they are not making the community better, that they are part of the problem. And if they are aware of this, and persist in the activities that alienate law enforcement from civilians, then they are _the_ problem. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10832 "2017-07-10T12:47:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How convenient for your argument. If they didn’t, would you just find another excuse, or would that be the last straw for your support for the NRA? The last straw would be if the NRA came out and actually said something racist. You are saying that I should effectively abandon my second amendment rights because they didn’t speak out enough against racism. Silence in the face of racism is not laudable but its not actual racism either. > [@](#): > > There is no video, but you are willing to make factual statements anyway? > [@](#): > > which by itself makes it uncomparable to Castile. There was video that demonstrated that Castile was shot by a jumpy cop who behaved very poorly, and the NRA said nothing. Just as it did for other instances of black gun owners shot or otherwise treated unjustly. Taking into account for their past support of gun control measures that were specifically targeted against black people, The anti-Black panther gun control law passed in California? You really think that law could not have had a basis other than racism? > [@](#): > > their fear-mongering rhetoric since, and their present conspicuous refusal to say anything about black gun owners mistreated, it seems entirely reasonable to me to strongly suspect that the NRA is not interested in the rights of black gun owners Sure it might be reasonable to suspect the NRA is not interested in the rights of black men if that is the only factor you look at. If you look at other factors such as their silence in other cases where white men with guns get shot by police, it also seems entirely reasonable to conclude that they are generally not interested in people that get shot by cops. IIRC they didn’t even find the Erik Scott shooting “troubling” I find the NRA’s silence “troubling” but until they are actually doing harm I will continue to vote for the most reasonable candidates that get nominated for their board. Considering the ACLUs failure to stand up for the rights of Asian students, are you ready to abandon the ACLU? Considering BLM’s promotion of violence and rioting. See Tef Poe’s threat of rioting if Trump wins. See Michael Brown’s dad saying “burn this bitch down.” Do you remember that NAACP BLM leader who told the prosecutor who failed to indict cops that riots will be on his head? Do you remember the incendiary rhetoric chanted at BLM events and then riots someihappening? Do you member BLM later actually trying to prevent riots and then riots not happening? BLM is far more responsible for the violence that surrounds BLM events than the NRA is for the police shooting of Philando Castile; and you would have me abandon the only bulwark the second amendment has against irrational gun control advocates because they are not vocal and outraged enough, while you remain loyal to an organization linked with violence and looting because you see some overall benefit from their activities. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10833 "2017-07-10T12:52:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The last straw would be if the NRA came out and actually said something racist. You are saying that I should effectively abandon my second amendment rights because they didn’t speak out enough against racism. Well, if you equate the NRA, a batshit crazy group of lobbyists, with your second amendment rights, then maybe you can see why the left has so much trouble with the second amendment. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10834 "2017-07-10T13:17:20Z")
**Damuri Ajashi** , this conversation no longer has any hope of being productive. It’s not that we disagree, it’s that you continue to repeat utterly false bullshit about BLM, and scrabble for any possible excuse, no matter how flimsy, for the NRA. My opinion of your judgment and ability to be rational is quite a bit lower than it was before. Best wishes. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10835 "2017-07-10T15:44:09Z")
What in the fuck. This country is a steaming pile of shit. [http://www.newson6.com/story/35836756/third-mistrial-declared-in-kepler-case-due-to-hung-jury](http://www.newson6.com/story/35836756/third-mistrial-declared-in-kepler-case-due-to-hung-jury) THIRD mistrial for this piece of shit racist murdering cop. This asshole kicks out his daughter for sneaking out. Drops her off at a homeless shelter. There she befriends and dates a young black man. This piece of shit murderer doesn’t like his daughter (that he left homeless) dating a black guy attacks them, and shoots the guy dead. All of the bystanders, neighbors, and the daughter all tell the same, exact story: He was the aggressor, the kid was unarmed, he was murdered. This results in THREE hung juries so far. It’s unbelievable. The first trial was 11-1 and the second 10-2 in favor of finding him guilty. Now it was split. Guess Racism is only getting better? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10836 "2017-07-10T18:03:19Z")
Lawyers representing a Louisiana cop who was shot by a lone gunman are suing five members of the Black Lives Matter movement, AND “#BlackLivesMatter” (as an entity, apparently) for their client’s shooting. > **[Federal Lawsuit Against Black Lives Matter Activists | PDF | Black Lives...](https://www.scribd.com/document/353407247/Complaint-Doe-v-McKesson-et-al)** > > A personal injury lawyer filed a federal lawsuit on Friday, claiming that Black Lives Matter and its leaders are responsible for the wounds of a police officer by a lone shooter after protests in Baton Rouge one year ago. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10837 "2017-07-10T23:16:24Z")
from[WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/3-chicago-officers-face-arraignment-in-laquan-mcdonald-case/2017/07/10/9a0222d8-652e-11e7-94ab-5b1f0ff459df_story.html?utm_term=.bd081ecfbc56) > [@](#): > > A Chicago police officer and two former officers pleaded not guilty Monday to conspiring to cover up what happened the night a white officer killed a black teenager by shooting him 16 times. > > Joseph Walsh, David March and Thomas Gaffney are accused of quickly coordinating their stories to protect themselves and other officers following the 2014 death of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald. The men said little during the brief hearing, which marked their first court appearance since being indicted last month. > > The indictment alleges the officers lied when they reported the teen aggressively swung a knife and tried to get up, while still armed, after he was shot by Officer Jason Van Dyke. But police dashcam video shows the teen was walking away from officers with a small knife by his side when he was shot. > > The video — which wasn’t publicly released until a year after the shooting — also shows that Laquan was spun to the ground as Van Dyke repeatedly fired. Van Dyke has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, and the city agreed to pay Laquan’s family $5 million. and I don’t remember if the dashcam video was posted here, so. . .[video](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/nov/24/chicago-officials-release-video-showing-police-killing-of-laquan-mcdonald-video) mc ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10838 "2017-07-10T23:35:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > . . .Your article, and any real research on the subject does not really show how many k9 shootings are “justified”, and I grant that probably the majority of them are, just as sadly, most of the shootings of people are justified. . . . even [“justified” shootings](http://coed.com/2017/06/23/armando-garcia-muro-palmdale-details/) can go horribly wrong > [@](#): > > Armando Garcia-Muro has been identified as the 17-year-old boy shot and killed by sheriff deputies in California when they opened fire on a charging pit bull and the bullets ricocheted off the ground. Garcia-Muro was struck in the chest by at least one “skip” round… . .Law enforcement were responding to a music complaint at a house party when the dog charged them and bit one of the deputies on the knee. Garcia-Muro was said to have come out from behind the apartment and temporarily restrained the pit bull by carrying it to the back of the building. But the dog returned as deputies waited for paramedics, at which point they opened fir and struck it at close range. Authorities found Garcia-Muro in the carpet area with a gunshot wound to the chest. He was taken to a hospital but later pronounced dead. apparently it was more important to just shoot than aim > [@](#): > > The deputy who was bitten by the dog was also struck by a ricocheted shot and was taken to a hospital for treatment. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10839 "2017-07-11T04:05:47Z")
WaPo [is reporting](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/07/10/police-say-they-shot-two-dogs-who-charged-at-an-officer-then-the-homeowner-posted-her-video/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories-2_police-dogs-7pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.66b42f6bd180) about a police officer who shot two dogs, which were in the backyard of their owner. > [@](#): > > one daughter accidentally triggered the home’s alarm system Saturday night. They called the alarm company, which canceled the alert, but the police were already on their way. > > On scene, one officer stayed at the front of the house, the newspaper reported, and another hopped the fence and began looking around the back. The problem again is the false report filed by the police officer who said > [@](#): > > While staging at the rear, two large-size pit bulls charged at officer,” the police report narrative said. “Officer dispatched the two dogs, causing them to run back into the residence. However, there was video (in the linked article [as well as here](http://m.startribune.com/money-pouring-in-for-vet-bills-for-2-dogs-shot-by-police-in-n-mpls-yard/433637483/) from another source) from the security camera which directly contradicts this report. The dogs were not charging the officer and in fact the one which was slowly approaching the officer was wagging its tail. The police chief acknowledges that the video was “difficult to watch” but failed to either criticize the officer or outline what disciplinary steps would be taken other than saying that a standard internal investigation which is triggered (no pun intended) by an officer discharging a firearm. For me, this is the part which bothers me the most. Why not admit that it appears that the officer has lied on his report? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10840 "2017-07-11T05:05:21Z")
And boy if that ain’t part of the problem. The legal system is built around the presumption that police officers tell the truth. [They’ve even sent people to death row on the mere say-so of police officers who were known to have lied on cases before](https://www.popehat.com/2013/03/14/the-presumption-of-truth/). Clearly, you’d think this would mean police are held to a _really_ high standard when it comes to this kind of thing - right? But no, when a cop shoots two dogs, then _lies about why he did it_, it’s apparently not even worth mentioning. Let’s be clear here. If I approach this cop alone, he can murder me with impunity, because unlike in _any other case_, the justice system will essentially give him carte blanche and believe him when he said he felt threatened by me and felt the need to use lethal force. This is an incredible power, and should not be abused. And here we have a case where he clearly lied about his use of lethal force, applied it to two dogs for _no_ apparent reason, then lied about it. This officer will continue to be on the force, continue to use his power at his discretion (despite apparently showing incredibly poor judgment), and will _continue to be treated by the legal system with the presumption of truth_. Fuck this guy. Fuck his superior officer for not immediately slapping the badge from his hand and saying, “NO, YOU DO NOT FUCKING LIE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN THE LINE OF DUTY ON POLICE REPORTS, THE PRESUMPTION OF TRUTH GRANTED TO US DOES NOT GRANT US THE LIBERTY TO LIE.” Fuck the legal culture that allows for the presumption of truth in the first place. Fuck the police culture that values the “thin blue line” over actually holding bad and dangerous cops accountable. Fuck _everything_ about this. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10841 "2017-07-11T05:41:30Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > What in the fuck. This country is a steaming pile of shit. > > [Third Mistrial Declared In Kepler Case Due To Hung Jury](http://www.newson6.com/story/35836756/third-mistrial-declared-in-kepler-case-due-to-hung-jury) > > THIRD mistrial for this piece of shit racist murdering cop. > > This asshole kicks out his daughter for sneaking out. Drops her off at a homeless shelter. There she befriends and dates a young black man. This piece of shit murderer doesn’t like his daughter (that he left homeless) dating a black guy attacks them, and shoots the guy dead. > > All of the bystanders, neighbors, and the daughter all tell the same, exact story: He was the aggressor, the kid was unarmed, he was murdered. > > This results in THREE hung juries so far. It’s unbelievable. > > The first trial was 11-1 and the second 10-2 in favor of finding him guilty. Now it was split. Guess Racism is only getting better? It’s worse. His wife who aided and abetted him was never charged with anything, and the NAACP gave up giving a shit about this once they actually [Saw a pic of the kid murdered.](http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/08/07/1227017/273071-5940220c-1e2a-11e4-9498-229fc8e204d4.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=541) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=543)