# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 546
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10902 "2017-07-17T20:36:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Three sources with knowledge of the incident said Sunday that two officers in one squad car, responding to the 911 call, pulled into the alley. Damond, in her pajamas, went to the driver’s side door and was talking to the driver. The officer in the passenger seat pulled his gun and shot Damond through the driver’s side door, sources said. What the ever-loving fuck??? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10903 "2017-07-17T22:41:12Z")
May she rest in peace, and damn the cops for needlessly killing another person. But on a larger, societal scale, I say: Oh, boy. The cops just killed a white woman. The shit is about to hit the fan! The cop better hope he has a good white boy name, if he’s got anything going for him! What’s that? The cop’s name was what?? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10904 "2017-07-17T23:25:20Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > May she rest in peace, and damn the cops for needlessly killing another person. But on a larger, societal scale, I say: Oh, boy. The cops just killed a white woman. The shit is about to hit the fan! The cop better hope he has a good white boy name, if he’s got anything going for him! What’s that? The cop’s name was what?? Oh god, please PLEASE don’t let this devolve into a ‘all mooslems\* are evil’ sentiment. But will be very interested to hear how the story pans out. WTF indeed. 😕 \*Have no idea if he is a Muslim or not, but that doesn’t matter if your name is Mohammed and you have dark skin. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10905 "2017-07-17T23:27:16Z")
[Jeff Sessions wants police to take more cash from American citizens](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jeff-sessions-wants-police-to-take-more-cash-from-american-citizens/ar-BBECcJm?li=BBnb7Kz) > [@](#): > > “With care and professionalism, we plan to develop policies to increase forfeitures. No criminal should be allowed to keep the proceeds of their crime. Adoptive forfeitures are appropriate as is sharing with our partners.” Yeah, that’s how forfeitures are handled. With care and professionalism. Soon, just about everyone who is stopped by police will be a drug trafficker. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10906 "2017-07-17T23:46:59Z")
The whole system of forfeitures is fucked up. If there is a crime, then of course they shouldn’t profit from it. The problem is that you don’t have to convict them of a crime to take their money. I’m just so fucking tired of the lying. The very obvious lying. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10907 "2017-07-18T00:03:46Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh god, please PLEASE don’t let this devolve into a ‘all mooslems\* are evil’ sentiment. But will be very interested to hear how the story pans out. WTF indeed. 😕 > > \*Have no idea if he is a Muslim or not, but that doesn’t matter if your name is Mohammed and you have dark skin. No, America can be more subtle than that. First it is liable to be: “The cops killed a WHITE woman???” Then, the cop who is going to need a lifeline, will be an easy target to those who might not have held a cop accountable before. First and foremost in America, this was a white woman. Even if she wasn’t American. Hell, I could be wrong about how this develops, but I wouldn’t bet against me. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10908 "2017-07-18T07:30:10Z")
I didn’t see this posted yet, so i’ll put it here. Sorry if someone’s already posted it and i missed it. It’s a [police bodycam video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsl36OLCx0c) of an encounter between a cop and a young woman in Burlington, Vermont. I believe that the official slogan on the Vermont license plate is “No-one’s Whiter Than Us,” and the woman in question seems to fit squarely into the [94%](http://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22White%22,%22sort%22:%22desc%22%7D) of Vermont’s population that identifies as white. The Burlington police apparently posted the video after the young woman accused the cops of assaulting her. Anyway, if you have time, watch the whole thing. If you don’t, check out in particular the sections from 2:45 - 4:00, and from 7:00 - 10:00. Apparently the video posted to Youtube is actually an edited version of a 90-minute effort to get her into proper custody. Look at how this encounter went, and then imagine how it might have gone in many parts of the country if the teenager had been black instead of white. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10909 "2017-07-18T08:28:32Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I didn’t see this posted yet, so i’ll put it here. Sorry if someone’s already posted it and i missed it. > > It’s a [police bodycam video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsl36OLCx0c) of an encounter between a cop and a young woman in Burlington, Vermont. I believe that the official slogan on the Vermont license plate is “No-one’s Whiter Than Us,” and the woman in question seems to fit squarely into the [94%](http://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22White%22,%22sort%22:%22desc%22%7D) of Vermont’s population that identifies as white. > > The Burlington police apparently posted the video after the young woman accused the cops of assaulting her. > > Anyway, if you have time, watch the whole thing. If you don’t, check out in particular the sections from 2:45 - 4:00, and from 7:00 - 10:00. Apparently the video posted to Youtube is actually an edited version of a 90-minute effort to get her into proper custody. > > Look at how this encounter went, and then imagine how it might have gone in many parts of the country if the teenager had been black instead of white. …here’s a comparable example. The police starts talking to her at 3.23. Less than two minutes later they are arresting her, and about 30 seconds after that they've got her lying down in the ground. She's pregnant by the way. And the officer said that she could have two minutes to talk on the phone, but he went to arrest her about 20 seconds after telling her that. Not even a teenager. 90 minutes vs less than 2 minutes. And California (according to the articles I've read) isn't a stop and identify state. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10910 "2017-07-18T14:30:33Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > [Jeff Sessions wants police to take more cash from American citizens](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jeff-sessions-wants-police-to-take-more-cash-from-american-citizens/ar-BBECcJm?li=BBnb7Kz) > > Yeah, that’s how forfeitures are handled. With care and professionalism. Soon, just about everyone who is stopped by police will be a drug trafficker. General Beauregard believes that the criminal justice system is another opportunity for private enterprise and local governments to capitalize on ordinary people. There’s a reason private security and prison stocks went through the roof the moment it was out there that he would be tapped for AG. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10911 "2017-07-18T15:30:02Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …here’s a comparable example. > > The police starts talking to her at 3.23. Less than two minutes later they are arresting her, and about 30 seconds after that they've got her lying down in the ground. She's pregnant by the way. And the officer said that she could have two minutes to talk on the phone, but he went to arrest her about 20 seconds after telling her that. Not even a teenager. 90 minutes vs less than 2 minutes. And California (according to the articles I've read) isn't a stop and identify state. Yep, and as the ACLU of Southern California commentary on the video says: > [@](#): > > Notice that the officer does not ask the first witness, who is white, for her ID, but he does ask the second witness [04m31s], who is African American, for hers. The cop was not there for whatever happened during the initial altercation between the two women; he has nothing more than a she-said/she-said incident. But he requires only one of them to show ID, and then arrests her when she doesn’t provide it. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10912 "2017-07-18T16:49:10Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh god, please PLEASE don’t let this devolve into a ‘all mooslems\* are evil’ sentiment. But will be very interested to hear how the story pans out. WTF indeed. 😕 > > \*Have no idea if he is a Muslim or not, but that doesn’t matter if your name is Mohammed and you have dark skin. He’s a Somali who has been investigated three times in the last couple of years for excessive force. I think one was dismissed and two are unresolved. As for his dark skin I note the press are treating him with kid gloves, stories about what a great guy he is, a credit to his community. And that may very well be true, we don’t know what happened yet, but this is all very different than the press a white cop gets when involved in such incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10913 "2017-07-18T16:57:21Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > He’s a Somali who has been investigated three times in the last couple of years for excessive force. I think one was dismissed and two are unresolved. As for his dark skin I note the press are treating him with kid gloves, stories about what a great guy he is, a credit to his community. And that may very well be true, we don’t know what happened yet, but this is all very different than the press a white cop gets when involved in such incidents. Well, we do know that the cop in passenger seat drew his weapon and fired at the woman through the driver’s side window. I can’t wrap my head around that. He fired at an unarmed woman who was the one that called the police, and,\* AND!!!\*, fired at her with his partner in the line of fire. :eek:😕:eek:😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10914 "2017-07-19T00:58:34Z")
I am someone who accepts that LEOs often have the unenviable task of dealing with the dregs of society, and in an armed and violent society such as ours, I can understand the fear that an officer might have. However, as a society, we cannot allow “I was afraid” to be the standard for accepting accidental homicides. Police training seems to emphasize that an officer’s number one job is to return home alive, and while I can sympathize with officers and their families, I disagree that this is the chief priority. We pay taxes for police officers to protect and serve – obviously we want them to return home alive and ought to take measures to make sure that happens. But the trend has been to empower police officers to use deadly force anytime they feel a heightened state of anxiety, and that’s just not acceptable. There has to be a higher standard. Again, I say this respectfully and knowing that LEOs read this site. And in case you are an LEO and happen to be reading this post – I argue on both sides of this issue. I have argued pretty fiercely that often individual citizens do a lot of unnecessarily stupid shit to escalate situations, and I sympathize with LEOs on that. I’ve got no sympathy for someone who can’t comply with a simple request and insists on being a smart-ass just because he wants to get on YouTube and demonstrate that he knows his ‘rights’ ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10915 "2017-07-19T01:03:46Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Well, we do know that the cop in passenger seat drew his weapon and fired at the woman through the driver’s side window. > > I can’t wrap my head around that. He fired at an unarmed woman who was the one that called the police, and,\* AND!!!\*, fired at her with his partner in the line of fire. > > :eek:😕:eek:😕😕 And his defense is probably going to be “I was in fear for my life.” And as much as I hate to bring race into this, it’s unavoidable. In the eyes of a lot of white people, and yes, white police officers, black men are in and of themselves fear-inducing specimens. It probably takes a tragedy such as this, with a brown-skinned non-native officer killing a white woman, before people calling police conduct into question and not automatically accepting their narrative enters the mainstream of public consciousness. If this had been a white officer and a black woman, most people who aren’t black would shrug. I hope it’s obvious that I’m not trivializing or trying to hyper-politicize this poor woman’s death. But facts are facts. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10916 "2017-07-19T01:25:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > However, as a society, we cannot allow “I was afraid” to be the standard for accepting accidental homicides. It appears to have worked again. [No third trial for ex-UC cop Ray Tensing in shooting death of unarmed motorist Sam DuBose](http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/07/18/no-third-trial-ex-uc-cop-ray-tensing-shooting-death-unarmed-motorist-sam-dubose/487763001/) > [@](#): > > The case involved the killing of an unarmed African-American man by a white officer who said he feared for his life, that he would be dragged under DuBose’s car. > > Tensing’s body camera showed much of what happened, but experts who testified on Tensing’s behalf said it gave an incomplete picture. There was conflicting testimony, for example, about whether Tensing’s arm was trapped inside the car after he reached in to remove the keys from the ignition when DuBose restarted it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10917 "2017-07-19T02:10:02Z")
> **[Officer heard loud noise before partner Mohamed Noor shot Justine Damond,...](https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-police-officer-heard-loud-noise-before-partner-mohamed-noor-shot-justine-damond-minnesota-bca-says/435251273/)** > > Officer's interview provides first account of woman's shooting death in south Mpls. Officer Noor has so far refused to be interviewed. Fucking coward. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10918 "2017-07-19T03:00:16Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [http://www.startribune.com/authorities-remain-silent-nearly-three-days-after-justine-damond-shooting/435251273/](http://www.startribune.com/authorities-remain-silent-nearly-three-days-after-justine-damond-shooting/435251273/) > > Officer Noor has so far refused to be interviewed. Fucking coward. I think that this shooting stinks to high heaven, but whatever else happens, i can’t blame him for refusing to give an interview while there’s an investigation underway, and while criminal charges might still be fired. Everyone, no matter who, deserves the protections of the law. I just wish more cops recognized this. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10919 "2017-07-19T05:02:43Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I think that this shooting stinks to high heaven, but whatever else happens, i can’t blame him for refusing to give an interview while there’s an investigation underway, and while criminal charges might still be fired. Everyone, no matter who, deserves the protections of the law. I just wish more cops recognized this. > [@](#): > > The BCA said Noor’s attorney, Thomas Plunkett, has not indicated whether the officer will give an interview. Plunkett did not respond to a request for comment. > [@](#): > > “We do have more information, though it’s frustrating to have some of the picture but not all of it,” Hodges said. “We cannot compel Officer Noor to make a statement; I wish we could,” she said, quickly clarifying: “I wish that he would make a statement.” As I’m reading that he’s refusing to give an interview to the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA), not the media. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10920 "2017-07-19T06:54:07Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > As I’m reading that he’s refusing to give an interview to the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA), not the media. So what happens then? Does any charge rely totally on forensic evidence and any statement made by the other cop? Genuine question here… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10921 "2017-07-19T07:01:11Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > As I’m reading that he’s refusing to give an interview to the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA), not the media. Yeah, i think you’re probably right. I misread it earlier. He still seems to have the legal right not to make a statement to the investigators. I think that this is fine, but a legal right and an administrative right should not be the same thing. I’ve always felt that police who refuse to cooperate with investigating agencies in cases like this should suffer immediate suspension or termination, but i’m betting the police unions wouldn’t go for that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=545) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=547)