# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1081 "2015-03-17T01:23:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And I don’t actually have to say any of this to you because if you personal were subject to this kind of treatment, there would be no question in your mind that it was wrong and why. “If”. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1082 "2015-03-17T01:27:41Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Why not have the fire department burgle homes? They’ve got the ladders and stuff. Ladder? bah. When you have the Jaws of life you go in through the fuckin front door. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1083 "2015-03-17T01:50:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The people have voted to allow laws that let the police raise money through fines. As, so it appears, they are allowed to do. I am suggesting, along with **Smapti** , that it might be better to raise taxes as a means to pay for them. Something that, inexplicably, seems wrong to you. > > Straight question. Do you thing funding the police from taxes is better than from fines? If so, why are you arguing? Show me any other thread where you are OK with raising taxes. Fucking just one, you troll. Troll troll troll, you ridiculous trolly-ass cup of troll juice. Troll! Troll ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1084 "2015-03-17T02:05:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Straight question. Do you thing funding the police from taxes is better than from fines? If so, why are you arguing? What makes you think that asking this question is some grand intellectual victory on your part? It’s the biggest fucking no-brainer since brains were invented. ALL GOVERNMENT SERVICES SHOULD BE PAID THROUGH TAXES. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1085 "2015-03-17T02:17:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > ALL GOVERNMENT SERVICES SHOULD BE PAID THROUGH TAXES. I’m glad to see we agree. Now stop trying to treat the symptom instead of the disease. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1086 "2015-03-17T03:47:29Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Show me any other thread where you are OK with raising taxes. Fucking just one, you troll. Troll troll troll, you ridiculous trolly-ass cup of troll juice. > > Troll! > > Troll Get to fuck, you pointless, ignorant pathetic piece of shit. I don’t owe you anything, and even if this were the only situation where I’d rather raise taxes - you know, instead of doing something that _you_ think is wrong as well as me - it wouldn’t make me wrong. > [@Acsenray](#): > > What makes you think that asking this question is some grand intellectual victory on your part? > > It’s the biggest fucking no-brainer since brains were invented. > > ALL GOVERNMENT SERVICES SHOULD BE PAID THROUGH TAXES. So why the fuck were you having a go at people who suggested doing that rather than those who support policing for revenue? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1087 "2015-03-17T11:30:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So which would you prefer? I’d definitely prefer them to cut services or go into debt when those “services” involve shaking down the public for money. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1088 "2015-03-17T11:31:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And the situation we have here is one in which democracy has _failed_, and so the bureaucracy is left with no choice but to fix the problem within the limitations of the law. The Ferguson PD was violating Federal law, per the DOJ report. I don’t know why you are more respectful of any local laws and statutes that allow them to shake down innocent black people for money than Federal law that is designed to protect civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1089 "2015-03-17T11:32:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So why the fuck were you having a go at people who suggested doing that rather than those who support policing for revenue? They were suggesting that, absent those taxes, “policing for revenue” is an appropriate and acceptable thing to do. It’s not, and it’s not the only other option. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1090 "2015-03-17T12:44:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So why the fuck were you having a go at people who suggested doing that rather than those who support policing for revenue? I am “having a go” at people who believe that using police power to trump up charges against citizens in order to raise revenue for government services is “natural,” “expected,” or anything else other than oppressive, dictatorial, shameful, and a gross abuse of authority. If the police department doesn’t have the money to operate, then the people don’t get a police department that operates. It’s not the job of the police department to go out and find its own funding sources through charging people with trumped up crimes and then creating a debtor’s prison system. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1091 "2015-03-17T13:10:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Get to fuck, you pointless, ignorant pathetic piece of shit. I don’t owe you anything, and even if this were the only situation where I’d rather raise taxes - you know, instead of doing something that _you_ think is wrong as well as me - it wouldn’t make me wrong. > > ? I’m not saying you’re a troll, but…every time you post, a bridge spontaneously forms above the electronic device you are using, and I heard you make a good living by replacing old bridges like this. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1092 "2015-03-17T13:30:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If the police department doesn’t have the money to operate, then the people don’t get a police department that operates. It’s not the job of the police department to go out and find its own funding sources through charging people with trumped up crimes and then creating a debtor’s prison system. I don’t think the revenue in question supports the police department alone. Typically that would go into the general fund, and support all municipal spending. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1093 "2015-03-17T14:06:15Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t think the revenue in question supports the police department alone. Typically that would go into the general fund, and support all municipal spending. That’s really doesn’t make a difference. It just means that the entire ruling establishment is corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1094 "2015-03-17T14:59:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They were suggesting that, absent those taxes, “policing for revenue” is an appropriate and acceptable thing to do. It’s not, and it’s not the only other option. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I am “having a go” at people who believe that using police power to trump up charges against citizens in order to raise revenue for government services is “natural,” “expected,” or anything else other than oppressive, dictatorial, shameful, and a gross abuse of authority. > > If the police department doesn’t have the money to operate, then the people don’t get a police department that operates. It’s not the job of the police department to go out and find its own funding sources through charging people with trumped up crimes and then creating a debtor’s prison system. Given that policing is probably _the_ fundamental role of government, and that forming into groups for safety is the basis from which government of any kind sprang, the idea that there should be no police force is absurd. It’s not going to happen, and it won’t happen. So fund it properly, through taxes, and stop arguing against doing so. You bunch of fucking idiotic, self-defeating, thoughtless liberal twats. Policing for revenue is obviously terrible, and also obviously far better than anarchy, so stop pretending that’s a viable option. After going on for so fucking long about “punishing the poor/the minorities” you now suggest that doing something that would be _far worse for them_ than the status quo is a good idea? Fuck you all, you bunch of fucking hypocrites. You are no better than those you claim to despise - frankly, you’re worse, because you are actively encouraging causing them suffering to teach them a lesson - something only the most extreme of right-wingers (and no-one in this conversation) does. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1095 "2015-03-17T15:01:06Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I’m not saying you’re a troll, but…every time you post, a bridge spontaneously forms above the electronic device you are using, and I heard you make a good living by replacing old bridges like this. And you - get a fucking mirror and hang your pathetic head in shape, you hypocritical trolling fucktard. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1096 "2015-03-17T16:10:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m glad to see we agree. Now stop trying to treat the symptom instead of the disease. To the extent that we both consider the Ferguson police to be a pustulent running sore on our democracy, it’s nice to see some agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1097 "2015-03-17T16:15:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Given that policing is probably _the_ fundamental role of government, and that forming into groups for safety is the basis from which government of any kind sprang, the idea that there should be no police force is absurd. It’s not going to happen, and it won’t happen. I actually agree. It’s not going to happen. When you have an inadequately funded police force, gangs take over. [I strongly recommend Ta Nehisi Coates’s article](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/The-Gangsters-Of-Ferguson/386893/) on the subject: > [@Coates](#): > > One should understand that the Justice Department did not simply find indirect evidence of unintentionally racist practices which harm black people, but "discriminatory intent”—that is to say willful racism aimed to generate cash. Justice in Ferguson is not a matter of “racism without racists,” but racism with racists so secure, so proud, so brazen that they used their government emails to flaunt it. > > … > > One should resist the urge to clutch pearls and carp about the “mean people” of Ferguson. Bigoted jokes are never really jokes at all, so much as a tool by which one sanctifies plunder. If black people in Ferguson are the 47 percent—a class of takers, of immoral reprobates, driving up crime while driving down quality of life—then why should they not be “the sources of revenue?” In this way a racist “joke” transfigures raw pillage into legal taxation. The “joke” is in fact an entire worldview that reveals that the agents of plunder, the police, are in fact not plundering anyone at all. They are just making sure the reprobates pay their fair share. The lack of an effective and impartial police force in Ferguson meant that instead there was a gang of extorters who wore uniforms and took what they wanted from the impoverished folk of their town. It’s a clear example of what happens without a police force who will serve and protect. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1098 "2015-03-17T16:28:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I am “having a go” at people who believe that using police power to trump up charges against citizens in order to raise revenue for government services is “natural,” “expected,” or anything else other than oppressive, dictatorial, shameful, and a gross abuse of authority. I think it’s a little from column A and a little from column B. When a system is set up such that there is an incentive for it to be exploited, then some people will exploit it. That’s unavoidable human nature. That doesn’t mean that the exploitation is OK or should be ignored or forgiven. There certainly are plenty of individual people who are ethical enough not to abuse their position even when the system somewhat incentivizes them to do so. In this case, systemic failings encouraged and abetted individual failings. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1099 "2015-03-17T16:46:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Given that policing is probably _the_ fundamental role of government, and that forming into groups for safety is the basis from which government of any kind sprang, the idea that there should be no police force is absurd. It’s not going to happen, and it won’t happen. > > So fund it properly, through taxes, and stop arguing against doing so. You bunch of fucking idiotic, self-defeating, thoughtless liberal twats. Policing for revenue is obviously terrible, and also obviously far better than anarchy, so stop pretending that’s a viable option. After going on for so fucking long about “punishing the poor/the minorities” you now suggest that doing something that would be _far worse for them_ than the status quo is a good idea? Fuck you all, you bunch of fucking hypocrites. You are no better than those you claim to despise - frankly, you’re worse, because you are actively encouraging causing them suffering to teach them a lesson - something only the most extreme of right-wingers (and no-one in this conversation) does. I’ll hold this in case I meet anyone who is actually arguing against properly funding police. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1100 "2015-03-17T16:51:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll hold this in case I meet anyone who is actually arguing against properly funding police. Here’s one; > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’d definitely prefer them to cut services or go into debt when those “services” involve shaking down the public for money. I’m sure you two have lots to talk about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=56)