# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 550
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10982 "2017-07-26T18:38:37Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > It must vary per state, but if your jurisdiction requires a carry permit it will also require that you have it whenever carrying ,and most often that if so then you must present it upon LEA request. > > Some jurisdictions issue permits for a specific individual firearm, so a number match would be in order. But I’d imagine there should be some sort of reason for the LEA to “ask to hold your gun for a bit”. Interesting, and can the LEO just request it at any time, or do they need some sort of probable cause first? He didn’t seem to be interested in matching her gun serial against her permit, so I don’t think that that was what he was doing. In fact, if he had, and she was in a place that had that info on her permit, then that should have cleared it up quickly. “The gun is stolen? If the gun is stolen, then why did they let me register it?” Just wondering if cops can actually walk down the street, demanding papers on every gun they see. I assume that would get the 2nd amendment peoples upset. Especially if they started asking white people. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10983 "2017-07-26T19:53:53Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Back in New York there was an expression “alibi gun”. it was a well known “secret” that some cops carried a cheap Saturday Night Special just for those embarrassing moments WHEN YOU KILL THE WRONG GUY. I was stationed in the Air Force with a guy whose father was a new York State Policeman, and he (the son) bragged about his father doing that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10984 "2017-07-26T20:03:24Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I was stationed in the Air Force with a guy whose father was a new York State Policeman, and he (the son) bragged about his father doing that. Just carrying it “in case” or actually using it to frame his murder victim? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10985 "2017-07-26T20:03:50Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just carrying it “in case” or actually using it to frame his murder victim? I don’t think he ever said his father had actually ever done it. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10986 "2017-07-26T22:17:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Interesting, and can the LEO just request it at any time, or do they need some sort of probable cause first? > > He didn’t seem to be interested in matching her gun serial against her permit, so I don’t think that that was what he was doing. In fact, if he had, and she was in a place that had that info on her permit, then that should have cleared it up quickly. > > “The gun is stolen? If the gun is stolen, then why did they let me register it?” > > Just wondering if cops can actually walk down the street, demanding papers on every gun they see. I assume that would get the 2nd amendment peoples upset. Especially if they started asking white people. Official Code of Georgia, § 16-11-137: > [@](#): > > **Required possession of weapons carry license or proof of exemption when carrying a weapon; detention for investigation of carrying permit** > > (a) Every license holder shall have his or her valid weapons carry license in his or her immediate possession at all times when carrying a weapon, or if such person is exempt from having a weapons carry license pursuant to Code Section 16-11-130 or subsection (c) of Code Section 16-11-127.1, he or she shall have proof of his or her exemption in his or her immediate possession at all times when carrying a weapon, and his or her failure to do so shall be prima-facie evidence of a violation of the applicable provision of Code Sections 16-11-126 through 16-11-127.2. > > (b) A person carrying a weapon shall not be subject to detention for the sole purpose of investigating whether such person has a weapons carry license. > > (c) A person convicted of a violation of this Code section shall be fined not more than $10.00 if he or she produces in court his or her weapons carry license, provided that it was valid at the time of his or her arrest, or produces proof of his or her exemption. Note that this section of the law was amended quite recently; that sub-section (b) only dates back to 2014. (I think the $10.00 fine may also be from that same time.) Also note that under current Georgia law, carrying a handgun requires a license whether the handgun is carried openly or concealed (it’s the same license, in fact). But a cop can’t detain you solely for the purpose of verifying that you have a license to openly carry a handgun. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10987 "2017-07-27T18:54:08Z")
I just looked up Tennessee (where the incident happened) carry laws and there it IS a “present on demand” jurisdiction. So the LEO could ask to check the permit upon spotting the carry. (Tennessee Code Sec. 39-17-1351, subheading (n)(1)) And the LEO can hold on to the weapon “at any time the officer reasonably believes it necessary for the protection of the permit holder, the officer or other individual”. (Subheading (u) ) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10988 "2017-07-27T19:59:04Z")
Mississippi: [Police go to wrong house, kill dog, then kills wrong man.](https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-wrong-house-kill-man-201351407.html) There are so many holes in the story the police gave, I’m thinking they emptied their guns into it. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10989 "2017-07-31T11:50:52Z")
Several Tennessee cops restrain man in chair and taser him over 40, FORTY times. They tortured him basically. > **[3 deputies placed on leave after lawsuit claims excessive force was used on...](https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/cheatham/2017/07/28/three-deputies-placed-administrative-leave-after-lawsuit-claims-excessive-force-used-inmate/517969001/)** > > Inmate claims his civil rights were violated after he was tased repeatedly while restrained. Any more bad apples and we’re going to have to throw away the entire fucking truckload of these shit-stains that call themselves cops. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10990 "2017-07-31T16:32:20Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Several Tennessee cops restrain man in chair and taser him over 40, FORTY times. > > They tortured him basically. > > [3 deputies placed on leave after lawsuit claims excessive force was used on teen inmate](http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/cheatham/2017/07/28/three-deputies-placed-administrative-leave-after-lawsuit-claims-excessive-force-used-inmate/517969001/) > > Any more bad apples and we’re going to have to throw away the entire fucking truckload of these shit-stains that call themselves cops. There’s over 1.1 million police officers in the United States. You scour the internet to bring up a few stories about bad apples & want to throw out the whole bunch? I bet your profession wishes they had as low of ratio of good apples to bad! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10991 "2017-07-31T16:50:27Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > There’s over 1.1 million police officers in the United States. You scour the internet to bring up a few stories about bad apples & want to throw out the whole bunch? > > I bet your profession wishes they had as low of ratio of good apples to bad! My profession doesn’t put people on paid administrative leave for torture and/or murder. Does yours? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10992 "2017-07-31T16:50:48Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > There’s over 1.1 million police officers in the United States. You scour the internet to bring up a few stories about bad apples & want to throw out the whole bunch? > > I bet your profession wishes they had as low of ratio of good apples to bad! A big problem, as has been made clear on multiple occasions in this thread, is that, in far too many cases, the good apples don’t demonstrate any willingness to help get rid of the bad ones. They stand by while unprofessional and sometimes criminal acts are committed; they refuse to testify against officers who break the rules or the law; sometimes they outright lie to protect their fellow officers; and plenty of departments show themselves willing to retain or to hire officers who have demonstrated unacceptable behavior in the line of duty. I’ve said a few times on this board, and i’ll say again, that i believe that most police are, in fact, good people genuinely trying to do their best under difficult circumstances. But as long as the bad apples continue to get a pass from the majority within the profession, including the top brass, then the whole profession suffers by association. If we’re sticking with the apple analogies, one rotten apple can spoil the bunch. If they don’t want to be perceived as rotten, maybe the good apples should do more to get the bad ones out of the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10993 "2017-07-31T16:54:27Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > There’s over 1.1 million police officers in the United States. You scour the internet to bring up a few stories about bad apples & want to throw out the whole bunch? > > I bet your profession wishes they had as low of ratio of good apples to bad! Bit of advice-You may have named yourself “Hocus Pocus”, but real magicians do more than frantic hand-waving to fool people. Work on your patter, make your scenarios at least _possible_(if not probable), and your act may eventually become tolerable. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10994 "2017-08-01T15:53:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > A big problem, as has been made clear on multiple occasions in this thread, is that, in far too many cases, the good apples don’t demonstrate any willingness to help get rid of the bad ones. They stand by while unprofessional and sometimes criminal acts are committed; they refuse to testify against officers who break the rules or the law; sometimes they outright lie to protect their fellow officers; and plenty of departments show themselves willing to retain or to hire officers who have demonstrated unacceptable behavior in the line of duty. > > I’ve said a few times on this board, and i’ll say again, that i believe that most police are, in fact, good people genuinely trying to do their best under difficult circumstances. But as long as the bad apples continue to get a pass from the majority within the profession, including the top brass, then the whole profession suffers by association. > > If we’re sticking with the apple analogies, one rotten apple can spoil the bunch. If they don’t want to be perceived as rotten, maybe the good apples should do more to get the bad ones out of the barrel. There’s also the fact that: 1: the bad apples in my career field usually get fired pretty quickly. 2: the bad apples inconvenience and/or annoy the people they interact with. They don’t leave people dying on the ground while they call their union reps. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10995 "2017-08-01T18:53:59Z")
A baltimore cop was just caught via his body camera of planting drugs on a suspect while other cops watched and did nothing. But wait, you will say, didn’t we already talk about this case? Isn’t this old news? Nope, because this is a [different set of cops](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-second-body-camera-video-20170731-story.html). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10996 "2017-08-01T19:12:42Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > A baltimore cop was just caught via his body camera of planting drugs on a suspect while other cops watched and did nothing. But wait, you will say, didn’t we already talk about this case? Isn’t this old news? > > Nope, because this is a [different set of cops](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-second-body-camera-video-20170731-story.html). Yeah, but it’s different cops violating the public’s trust in a the same way, so is it really worth talking about? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10997 "2017-08-01T19:13:12Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > A baltimore cop was just caught via his body camera of planting drugs on a suspect while other cops watched and did nothing. But wait, you will say, didn’t we already talk about this case? Isn’t this old news? > > Nope, because this is a [different set of cops](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-second-body-camera-video-20170731-story.html). Wow, i was just about to jump in and tell you that this incident has already been discussed, but now there’s another one! Of course, the fact that a cop was caught doing this once should be our first clue that it probably happens with some regularity. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10998 "2017-08-01T19:13:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The bolded part of this sentence is ludicrous and has no basis in reality. You’re right. The statement was not specific enough. Let me rephrase: In functional democracy there is no excuse for violence in the pursuit of political change. You can still use violence for self defense. You can still use violence as part of the police power. You can still use violence in sporting events. I’m sure there are a few I am missing but there is no excuse for violence in the pursuit of political change in a functional democracy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/10999 "2017-08-01T19:30:32Z")
Nvm, just realized you are replying to 2 week old posts. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11000 "2017-08-01T21:06:32Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > It doesn’t. They work for us. They are accountable. they wield power that we gave them, and they are free to resign if they do not like. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11001 "2017-08-01T21:12:38Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > There’s also the fact that: > > 1: the bad apples in my career field usually get fired pretty quickly. > > 2: the bad apples inconvenience and/or annoy the people they interact with. They don’t leave people dying on the ground while they call their union reps. This in all its glory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=549) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=551)