# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 554
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11062 "2017-08-17T12:23:21Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m confused because I don’t think ii was enough time. What will he really do? Three years? Less because of parole and good behavior? Ah. Yeah, it is probably a light sentence compared to most assaults with a firearm. Still, any jail time at all makes me feel that justice is being done. In most cases, he would have taken a couple years off and then been reinstated with back pay. ---
**Author:** ![Melcalc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melcalc/32/468_2.png) [@Melcalc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melcalc)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11063 "2017-08-18T19:35:13Z")
[King County deputy mistakes pen for knife, kills Tommy Le hours before high school graduation](http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/bubbly-kid-was-fatally-shot-by-king-county-deputy-hours-before-high-school-graduation/) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11064 "2017-08-18T21:20:29Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Ah. Yeah, it is probably a light sentence compared to most assaults with a firearm. Still, any jail time at all makes me feel that justice is being done. In most cases, he would have taken a couple years off and then been reinstated with back pay. True, all too often they skate, and get to do it again. See that’s the thing folks refuse to see. I for one, don’t hate ALL cops. I actually like some. But I have no use for the “killer cops” or the crooked cops. Departments need to have the power to get rid of them, and if it takes weakening their unions to do it, so be it. There has to be a checks and balances - even in law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11065 "2017-08-18T22:01:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > True, all too often they skate, and get to do it again. > > See that’s the thing folks refuse to see. I for one, don’t hate ALL cops. I actually like some. But I have no use for the “killer cops” or the crooked cops. Departments need to have the power to get rid of them, and if it takes weakening their unions to do it, so be it. There has to be a checks and balances - even in law enforcement. There also needs to be something that keeps the bad cops from resigning at one place to avoid being fired and getting any other law enforcement job. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11066 "2017-08-18T22:42:00Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > There also needs to be something that keeps the bad cops from resigning at one place to avoid being fired and getting any other law enforcement job. Absolutely, like the one who was declared “totally unfit” and yet got a job at another department and then killed Tamir Rice. There is probably more background checking and “vetting” to be a Walmart greeter, than to be a policeman in some places. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11067 "2017-08-19T00:32:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Absolutely, like the one who was declared “totally unfit” and yet got a job at another department and then killed Tamir Rice. There is probably more background checking and “vetting” to be a Walmart greeter, than to be a policeman in some places. > **[How problem cops stay on Michigan's streets](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/07/09/how-problem-cops-stay-street/414813001/)** > > The system protects them and lets them get hired elsewhere, endangering citizens and costing cities millions I posted this link in another thread. Even if they don’t go to jail or lose pensions, the bad cops should not be allowed to hurt people while hiding behind a badge. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11068 "2017-08-19T06:04:19Z")
Tonight we go to tiny, Euclid, Ohio (population 50k +/-): [Dashcam video shows white cop punching black man during stop](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_ARREST_VIDEO_OHOL-?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-08-18-20-59-56) > [@](#): > > A dashcam video of a traffic stop that led to a white police officer with a history of disciplinary issues repeatedly punching a black man and hitting his head on pavement appears to show a different sequence of events than police had originally described. > > The initial statement from police in the Cleveland suburb of Euclid said Richard Hubbard III, who was pulled over on suspicion of having a suspended driver’s license, had refused Officer Michael Amiott’s orders to “face away” after getting out of his car Aug. 12 and then began resisting. But the video obtained this week in a public records request appears to show Amiott not giving Hubbard a chance to comply, Hubbard’s attorney said Friday. > [@](#): > > The dashcam video shows Amiott opening the car door and Hubbard getting out. Within a second of Amiott ordering him to “face away,” the video shows the officer grabbing Hubbard’s arms and wrestling him to the ground in the middle of a street as Hubbard’s girlfriend jumps out of the car and rushes over. > > The video shows Amiott bashing Hubbard’s head against the pavement several times and then punching him in the head more than a dozen times as Hubbard tries to defend himself. > > “Babe, stop,” Hubbard’s girlfriend implores, kneeling on the road and screaming as Amiott punches him repeatedly. > > Some of the punches were thrown after Hubbard, who’s 25 years old, spread his arms out and appeared not to be resisting. Increasingly frantic, Hubbard’s girlfriend yells at officers that Hubbard is unarmed. > [@](#): > > Amiott was hired by the Euclid Police Department in September 2014. He was reprimanded for hitting a driver with a handgun, mishandling evidence, losing his temper in front of his commanding officer and being involved in two crashes in police vehicles, according to personnel files released Friday. > > Before Euclid, Amiott was an officer in Mentor, east of Cleveland. Amiott resigned in April 2014 after an internal investigation concluded he had lied to other officers when explaining why he stopped a man for a suspended driver’s license. > > Mentor personnel files show that Amiott was cited for two vehicle accidents, eight speeding violations and one motorcycle violation while he was on a learner’s permit before he was hired as an officer. In his application, Amiott indicated that the “danger” aspect of being an officer was one reason he was drawn to the job. It’s hard for me to believe that that last bit didn’t throw up all kinds of red flags, but then I realized that I was talking about _cops_ and they think that all sorts of really fucked up things are perfectly normal, so who knows what “I think danger is really cool” would indicate to a police HR rep? Anyway, it’s good to see that the police really care about the public they serve and that they have processes in place to weed out the bad cops… Oh, wait. [Here is the dash cam footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12y_twVJnbU). The violence begins at about the 2:00 minute mark. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11069 "2017-08-19T16:46:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Tonight we go to tiny, Euclid, Ohio (population 50k +/-): [Dashcam video shows white cop punching black man during stop](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_ARREST_VIDEO_OHOL-?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-08-18-20-59-56)It’s hard for me to believe that that last bit didn’t throw up all kinds of red flags, but then I realized that I was talking about _cops_ and they think that all sorts of really fucked up things are perfectly normal, so who knows what “I think danger is really cool” would indicate to a police HR rep? > > Anyway, it’s good to see that the police really care about the public they serve and that they have processes in place to weed out the bad cops… > > **Oh, wait.** > > [Here is the dash cam footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12y_twVJnbU). The violence begins at about the 2:00 minute mark. It makes MY point for me. That clown should not be a cop. At this point, he SHOULD be in prison. And there seem to be far too many others, just like him. Why. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11070 "2017-08-19T16:48:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Tonight we go to tiny, Euclid, Ohio From that article: > [@](#): > > The police union that represents Amiott issued a statement to WJW-TV that says: “We stand with Officer Amiott and we hope that people will not rush to judgment, but rather will understand the literally-split-second decision and response required of our police and will let the administrative review process play out.” I think most cops are good, but there has to be a better way that this. This [news report](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mddje1EDQ5s) shows the beating from another angle. It may come down to economic factors. More and more departments are going to get sued for shit like this. Googling this incident brought up something I didn’t know before. Apparently, there are government employees, including cops, who are allowed to retire on disability while under investigation for misconduct. This 2016 article [Deputies fired over racist texts retired on disability](http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local-govt--politics/deputies-fired-over-racist-texts-retired-disability/CX0ddTkGGW8gRlnvjoyqUP/) discussed it. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11071 "2017-08-19T17:55:41Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > From that article:I think most cops are good, but there has to be a better way that this. This [news report](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mddje1EDQ5s) shows the beating from another angle. > > It may come down to economic factors. More and more departments are going to get sued for shit like this. > > Googling this incident brought up something I didn’t know before. Apparently, there are government employees, including cops, who are allowed to retire on disability while under investigation for misconduct. This 2016 article [Deputies fired over racist texts retired on disability](http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local-govt--politics/deputies-fired-over-racist-texts-retired-disability/CX0ddTkGGW8gRlnvjoyqUP/) discussed it. There are all kinds of sleezy ways for cops to duck out, avoid prosecution and still collect their pension. If the problem retires, it is off the street and IA doesn’t have to do any work. Sweet deal to beat someone down “legally” one last time as a retirement gift. The watch pales in comparison. Fucking bad apples. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11072 "2017-08-19T18:29:57Z")
“Tiny” Euclid, Ohio has 50,000 people. ---
**Author:** ![Pippers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5a626/32.png) [@Pippers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pippers)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11073 "2017-08-19T21:53:32Z")
> [@Melcalc](#): > > [King County deputy mistakes pen for knife, kills Tommy Le hours before high school graduation](http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/bubbly-kid-was-fatally-shot-by-king-county-deputy-hours-before-high-school-graduation/) All I know about this tragedy is what I read in the linked article, and from that article I can understand why the cop shot him. Damn, he was acting crazy. I’m guessing he was high. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11074 "2017-08-19T22:19:16Z")
> [@Pippers](#): > > Damn, he was acting crazy. I’m guessing he was high. What definition of “high” are you accustomed to ? I’m pretty damn high right this minute. No “acting crazy” going on here, my gf wouldn’t allow it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11075 "2017-08-19T22:58:21Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What definition of “high” are you accustomed to ? > > I’m pretty damn high right this minute. No “acting crazy” going on here, my gf wouldn’t allow it. Kid was 20, not known to use drugs, and was about to graduate. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got into some drugs he didn’t know how to handle. Tragic, and definitely a wake up call of some kind, but I don’t know I can fault the police, as the story currently is, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11076 "2017-08-21T17:42:45Z")
I was sure that this had to be a Onion headline, but it is apparently deadly serious. New York police union releases [video](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/347340-ny-police-union-were-victims-of-blue-racism-against-cops) claiming that police are victims of “blue racism.” I kid you not. They even have the balls to quote from Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11077 "2017-08-21T18:35:38Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I was sure that this had to be a Onion headline, but it is apparently deadly serious. > > New York police union releases [video](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/347340-ny-police-union-were-victims-of-blue-racism-against-cops) claiming that police are victims of “blue racism.” > > I kid you not. > > They even have the balls to quote from Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. Not sure why you’d think it’s a joke, if you’ve read this thread and others about the police. The hatred is very real. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11078 "2017-08-21T19:02:04Z")
Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Way to miss the point there, kid. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11079 "2017-08-21T20:08:38Z")
A response I wrote: Dear NY Police Union, You complain that when I look at you, I “only see blue”. Yeah. No kidding. The risk of interacting with the police is completely different from interacting with anyone else. If an encounter with a police officer goes sour, I could end up jailed, assaulted, or dead. My rights may be trampled at a moment’s notice, and if they are, you, the police union, will be there to help prevent any justice. This video is a spectacular display of chutzpah, given that your union is directly responsible for keeping bad cops on the streets and police unions across the country have gone to bat for abusive and murderous cops. You want people to see more than the uniform? You’re going to have to do better. You’re going to have to ensure that the cops who tackle pregnant women to the ground for _no reason_, the cops who rack up dozens of complaints before being caught on video assaulting civilians, the cops who plant evidence, harass storeowners, and tamper with videocameras, and the cops who either do not know or do not care about the rights of civilians are off the streets. Because here’s the thing - whether an encounter with a police officer goes sour is almost entirely out of my hands. If a cop is having a bad day and wants to take it out on me… Well, I’m screwed. And your job is in no small part ensuring that cops like that remain out on the streets. I see the uniform before I see the person because that is the reality you force us into. Because if I see the uniform too late, it could mean the end of my life, or the end of my freedom. Because the uniform implies power, and _every interaction is inherently colored by that power dynamic_. You should get this. You _need_ to get this. Sincerely, A concerned citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11080 "2017-08-21T20:49:56Z")
And they are proven correct. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11081 "2017-08-21T22:20:31Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Not sure why you’d think it’s a joke, if you’ve read this thread and others about the police. The hatred is very real. Poor little victim. How hard it must be, to be such a martyr. Boohoohoo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=553) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=555)