# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 560
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11182 "2017-08-25T07:16:14Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > But don’t call the cops out on it, that’s bigotry. :rolleyes: This is _exactly_ what I mean by a power dynamic. If a cop is crooked and wants to fuck with you, they can _ruin your life_. Quota systems give cops a strong incentive to _be_ crooked, and form kind of an [asshole filter](http://siderea.livejournal.com/1230660.html), which is downright _tragic_ when talking about people who can ruin your life with false testimony. It should not be controversial to say you need to be very careful around cops. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11183 "2017-08-25T09:15:47Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Not going to happen. It ruins the whole government sense of entitlement if judges, prosecutors, chiefs and union officials get held accountable for things that lower level cops do. The whole system is corrupt and nothing will change it. Just thank blue for all they do. It does happen. The SF Chief of Police [resigned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/19/san-francisco-police-greg-suhr-resigns-fatal-shooting-scandal) after a hunger strike in protest of a number of high profile shootings of black men. A 17 day hunger strike is a pretty extreme way of trying to affect change but citizens have to care enough to turn up. Similarly, there’s a new wave of prosecutors being elected that are campaigning on a platform of justice reform that are slowly starting to replace the “law and order” style prosecutors from the 90s as more and more citizens become familiar with the criminal justice system. This cynical “It’s all rigged so let’s just sulk” policy isn’t very productive. Change is slow and hard but there are real ways to make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11184 "2017-08-25T11:30:01Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > It does happen. The SF Chief of Police [resigned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/19/san-francisco-police-greg-suhr-resigns-fatal-shooting-scandal) after a hunger strike in protest of a number of high profile shootings of black men. > > A 17 day hunger strike is a pretty extreme way of trying to affect change but citizens have to care enough to turn up. Similarly, there’s a new wave of prosecutors being elected that are campaigning on a platform of justice reform that are slowly starting to replace the “law and order” style prosecutors from the 90s as more and more citizens become familiar with the criminal justice system. > > This cynical “It’s all rigged so let’s just sulk” policy isn’t very productive. Change is slow and hard but there are real ways to make a difference. Thank you for sharing that. It is a shame that more of his brothers in blue don’t do the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11185 "2017-08-25T14:58:24Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > … > This cynical “It’s all rigged so let’s just sulk” policy isn’t very productive. And neither is Steophan’s “submit and take it” bullshit. Senior cops - commissioners, chiefs and sheriffs need to stop the arrest quotas. Prosecutors need to stop their using a count of convictions and executions (“law and order”) as a way to get re-elected. They also DO need to start prosecuting crooked and dangerous police. It seems the majority of cases involving bad cops, the cop already had a history of problems, red flags and abuses. “Top cops”, Prosecutors ad DAs need to act on this. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11186 "2017-08-25T15:33:29Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Prosecutors need to stop their using a count of convictions and executions (“law and order”) as a way to get re-elected. So you’re fine with cops just sitting in their cars napping or drinking coffee for their whole shift? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11187 "2017-08-25T15:56:32Z")
What an idiotic attempt at a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11188 "2017-08-25T16:07:38Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > So you’re fine with cops just sitting in their cars napping or drinking coffee for their whole shift? So, you’re fine with cops having a quote of killing at least one member of a minority per shift? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11189 "2017-08-25T16:18:01Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > So you’re fine with cops just sitting in their cars napping or drinking coffee for their whole shift? Huh? That’s senseless and idiotic. It’s also irrelevant. Grats. You just won the _Triple Crown of Stupid_. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11190 "2017-08-25T16:28:36Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > So you’re fine with cops just sitting in their cars napping or drinking coffee for their whole shift? Holy shit, I didn’t think anything could be worse than Steophan’s ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11191 "2017-08-25T16:28:56Z")
I’ll take that as a tacit admission that you’re fine with it. That’s what you’re saying by not holding municipal employees to performance standards. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11192 "2017-08-25T16:29:49Z")
> **[Sixteen Years Ago He Was Granted A New Hearing. He Is Still Waiting For It.](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/melissasegura/sixteen-years-ago-he-was-granted-a-new-hearing-he-is-still)** > > Roosevelt Myles won the right to a new hearing after he claimed he was framed by corrupt Chicago cops. But more than a decade and a half later, he is still waiting for that day in court, and still doing time for a murder he says he had nothing to do... The whole system has screwed this guy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11193 "2017-08-25T16:33:49Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > I’ll take that as a tacit admission that you’re fine with it. > > That’s what you’re saying by not holding municipal employees to performance standards. So, you are fine with performance standards that include raping women who call for help, beating men for sitting on their mother’s porches, planting evidence, and murdering? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11194 "2017-08-25T16:40:31Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > So you’re fine with cops just sitting in their cars napping or drinking coffee for their whole shift? Of course not. Gotta have donuts. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11195 "2017-08-25T16:41:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, you are fine with performance standards that include raping women who call for help, beating men for sitting on their mother’s porches, planting evidence, and **murdering**? (Bolding emphasis mine) > **[Kshama Sawant sued for defamation by 2 Seattle officers who fatally shot Che...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/kshama-sawant-sued-for-defamation-by-2-seattle-officers-who-fatally-shot-che-taylor/)** > > Officers Scott Miller and Michael Spaulding allege that the Seattle City Council member damaged their reputations by saying that they had carried out a “brutal murder.” The two later were officially cleared of wrongdoing in the 2016 shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11196 "2017-08-25T16:41:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, you are fine with performance standards that include raping women who call for help, beating men for sitting on their mother’s porches, planting evidence, and murdering? I’ll take that as a tacit admission that he is fine with it. Because the only options are status quo or end policing. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11197 "2017-08-25T18:06:13Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I’ll take that as a tacit admission that he is fine with it. Because the only options are status quo or end policing. Typical bullshit. I wonder why these clowns have such a problem with firing and arresting the known bad cops? I have my own theory and it ain’t pretty. The only reason to take that position and ignore everything that has been documented in the news, on video (nothing on the internet really goes away), and by the courts, is if you are fucking dirty too. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11198 "2017-08-25T18:28:41Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Typical bullshit. I wonder why these clowns have such a problem with firing and arresting the known bad cops? > > I have my own theory and it ain’t pretty. The only reason to take that position and ignore everything that has been documented in the news, on video (nothing on the internet really goes away), and by the courts, is if you are fucking dirty too. I don’t know that I consider all boot lickers to be corrupt themselves. They just don’t care at all when they see these things happening to other people, and assume that it will never happen to them. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11199 "2017-08-25T18:31:14Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > And neither is Steophan’s “submit and take it” bullshit. You ignore half of my point, which is to challenge it in court later if the thing you submit to is wrong. That’s not “bullshit”, that’s how things work in an ordered society. And as many of the links you’ve posted show, people are winning massive amounts in court where the police are wrong, and many bad officers are being punished. If, however, instead of challenging it in court and voting for politicians and such who will change things, they just complain on the internet nothing will change. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11200 "2017-08-25T18:41:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You ignore half of my point, which is to challenge it in court later if the thing you submit to is wrong. That’s not “bullshit”, that’s how things work in an ordered society. And as many of the links you’ve posted show, people are winning massive amounts in court where the police are wrong, and many bad officers are being punished. > > If, however, instead of challenging it in court and voting for politicians and such who will change things, they just complain on the internet nothing will change. Assuming you survive what you are submitting to, assuming that what you are submitting to doesn’t get you framed, assuming that by submitting, you have not waived your rights to take it up in court later, assuming that by submitting you are not intimidated into not testifying against the police who is raping you. Assuming all that, then you can assume that you will get a lawyer to take the case, then you have to assume that the courts will allow you to bring the suit, then you have to assume that the police will not do everything in their power (not an insignificant influence they have) to thwart your investigation. After all that, you may get paid. How much are you willing to sell your civil rights for? How much are you willing to exchange for a maimed child? How much would you be willing to exchange for a killed child? Do you really think that these families get the money, and say, “Man that was worth going through all the pain and hell in order to get this payday?” Is that what you think is important to people, that they get paid for having their rights treated like shit? Here’s an idea. Instead of telling the civilian populace that they must submit to their rights being violated, their bodies harmed and molested, and their families destroyed, and that they can later seek recompense from the courts, we tell the police to stop violating people’s rights. Oh, or would that be too much for the darling little snowflakes. If we ask them to stop raping women while on duty, then we might as well ask them to stay in their cars and drink coffee and nap all shift, right? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11201 "2017-08-25T19:25:06Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Assuming you survive what you are submitting to, assuming that what you are submitting to doesn’t get you framed, assuming that by submitting, you have not waived your rights to take it up in court later, assuming that by submitting you are not intimidated into not testifying against the police who is raping you. > > Assuming all that, then you can assume that you will get a lawyer to take the case, then you have to assume that the courts will allow you to bring the suit, then you have to assume that the police will not do everything in their power (not an insignificant influence they have) to thwart your investigation. > > After all that, you may get paid. How much are you willing to sell your civil rights for? How much are you willing to exchange for a maimed child? How much would you be willing to exchange for a killed child? > > Do you really think that these families get the money, and say, “Man that was worth going through all the pain and hell in order to get this payday?” > > Is that what you think is important to people, that they get paid for having their rights treated like shit? > Here’s an idea. Instead of telling the civilian populace that they must submit to their rights being violated, their bodies harmed and molested, and their families destroyed, and that they can later seek recompense from the courts, we tell the police to stop violating people’s rights. > > Oh, or would that be too much for the darling little snowflakes. If we ask them to stop raping women while on duty, then we might as well ask them to stay in their cars and drink coffee and nap all shift, right? Too much to ask, just like expecting THE LAW to handle them through arrests and convictions and jail time. Too much. There are already laws against rape, murder,"testilying (perjury), etc etc etc. Not any dumb lawsuit civil law, CRIMINAL law. And, that has not a fucking thing to do with waiting for some election either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=559) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=561)