# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 574
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11462 "2017-09-13T20:04:15Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Because asset forfeiture of less than $40,000 is illegal in the state of California. If it was seized _as evidence_, then it isn’t asset forfeiture. Absent some other proceeding, the person would get the evidence back at the end of the case (though often they have to file a motion to do that, which is bullshit). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11463 "2017-09-13T20:22:35Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > As soon as the story broke Payne’s body cam video was out in the media. How can a FOIA request get handled that quickly & video released? > > It doesn’t happen that fast. > > One or more of his fellow officers forwarded the video to the media. > > So much for “the blue line always looks out for their own”… Question: Given that your conjecture about the timing an method of release of the body cam video has turned out to be completely erroneous, and in fact has helped to prove the complete and utter opposite of your conclusion about “the blue line”… Do you feel a little embarrassed now? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11464 "2017-09-13T21:27:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What happened then? Did you get a copy of the warrant? Do you know it was withdrawn or quashed? He said he would try to get the park person to try depositing my cheque at a bank. He was true to his word. A couple of weeks later the cheque cleared my account, and a couple of weeks after that, he called me again and told me that he spoke with the judge and had the warrant quashed. I never received any paperwork concerning the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11465 "2017-09-13T21:27:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Because asset forfeiture of less than $40,000 is illegal in the state of California. It’s not asset forfeiture. It’s evidence of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11466 "2017-09-13T21:30:17Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > He said he would try to get the park person to try depositing it at a bank. > > He was true to his word. A couple of weeks later the cheque cleared my account, and a couple of weeks after that, he called me again and told me that he spoke with the judge and had it quashed. I never received any paperwork concerning the matter. I find that story profoundly disturbing. If I were you, I’d scan a copy of that cleared check and a copy of the bank statement showing it, and store both someplace in the cloud so that in ten years, you’ll be able to produce it just in case the sheriff’s expertise with warrants matched his expertise with banks. Or contact the court directly and confirm there is no longer an outstanding warrant. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11467 "2017-09-13T23:00:25Z")
And here I was hoping I wouldn’t have to make this post, and, for ONCE, people would just get it. It seemed like it–no one commented for nearly a day. > [@Bricker](#): > > It’s not asset forfeiture. It’s evidence of a crime. How the fuck is money from a wallet supposed to be evidence? It’s evidence the guy had money in his wallet. And it deprives him of all the money he had that day. If it’s the number and quantity of bills, you can just write that information down. Have the guy sign off on it, even. The guy is obviously poor if he’s busking hotdogs, and thus taking all the money he has on his person is cruel. The fact that he didn’t ticket open alcohol or other vendors (who he just told to leave) shows that the cop cannot say “I had to because of the law.” He clearly didn’t. **Which means the law is not a defense for his actions.** The cruelty of his chosen actions are the reason the guy got a ton of money. People see what happened in the video and the reports, and come to the conclusion that there was no way what the cop did was justified. Enough people chose to contribute that he got a decent bit of money. He can actually go get that permit he’s supposed to have, and even buy his own cart, as he’s always wanted to. The cop, on the other hand, deliberately made that harder out of “law and order in action.” We may not be able to get cruel cops off the force, but we can make their cruelty not affect others so much, so that maybe they’ll realize it’s not worth it. If the guy they want to hurt gets off better in the end, maybe they’ll stop hurting people. Pretty much anyone can see the non-cruel action was to cite the guy and make him leave, not take his money. The fact that so many law enforcement officers are so out of touch with what the public thinks the right thing is is a problem. Same with lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11468 "2017-09-13T23:04:31Z")
And I really hope that, unlike Reddit, you guys do realize that this is different from the guy actually going and robbing a bank or something. Then the funds belong to other people, for one thing. And, for another, a lot of money means more than a small bit. He’s in a rich city: $60 is not a lot. There are times when taking the money makes sense, even if the “evidence” concept doesn’t. Taking money that is actually likely used in a crime and holding it until the crime is proven not to have happened is not a bad idea inherently. Taking money as “evidence” kinda is. You can document that it exists with a camera and signed statements and such. You don’t need the actual cash. Hell, we spend money without cash all the time. And, no, the law saying otherwise has no bearing on anything, any more than “just following orders” is ever an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11469 "2017-09-14T16:42:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And here I was hoping I wouldn’t have to make this post, and, for ONCE, people would just get it. It seemed like it–no one commented for nearly a day. You poor poor put-upon man. Having to save us all from ourselves. Truly you are the Jesus of out times. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11470 "2017-09-14T16:47:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s not asset forfeiture. It’s evidence of a crime. In your experience, is it a standard occurrence for a police officer to take money from someone’s wallet when issuing a citation? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11471 "2017-09-15T15:00:37Z")
Even though I live in St. Louis, I haven’t been following [this story](http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ex-st-louis-police-officer-jason-stockley-found-not-guilty/article_c7ee91ad-e65b-5da6-84cb-0b478078c8cb.html) all that closely. But: > [@St Louis Post Dispatch](#): > > Former St. Louis police officer Jason Stockley was found not guilty Friday of murdering a man while on duty. > > St. Louis Circuit Judge Timothy Wilson’s highly anticipated verdict found a white former St. Louis police officer not guilty of first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the December 2011 shooting death of a black drug suspect after a high-speed pursuit and crash. > > \ > > Stockley, 36, whose home is now Houston, was charged last year with first-degree murder and armed criminal action in the Dec. 20, 2011, shooting death of Anthony Lamar Smith, 24, at the end of a police chase at West Florissant and Acme avenues. The chase began when Stockley and his partner Brian Bianchi tried to arrest Smith for a suspected drug deal at a Church’s Chicken at Thekla Avenue and Riverview Boulevard. At trial, Stockley said he was afraid the suspect, Anthony Lamar Smith, was going to shoot him. But, during the chase, Stockley was recorded saying to another officer, “I’m going to kill this motherfucker, don’t you know it.” A gun was found in Smith’s car, but only Stockley’s DNA was found on the gun. As I said, I haven’t followed the case closely. The judge said the prosecution hadn’t proved their case adequately. I suppose there might be a couple of reasons for that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11472 "2017-09-15T15:23:23Z")
Came in to post [about the same story](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_SHOOTING_ST_LOUIS_MOOL-?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-09-15-10-35-45), **Bayard**. > [@Associated Press](#): > > At the end of the chase, Stockley opened fire only when Smith, still in his car, refused commands to put up his hands and reached along the seat “in the area where the gun was,” Bruntrager said. Stockley said he climbed into Smith’s car and found a revolver stuffed between the center console and passenger seat. > > But prosecutors questioned why Stockley dug into a bag in the back seat of the police SUV before returning to Smith’s car. > > The gun found in Smith’s car didn’t have his DNA on it, but it did have Stockley’s. So he said he was gonna kill the guy, he killed the guy, then he may or may not have planted a gun on the guy, all on tape, but still no conviction. Screw being rich; kids today should wanna be cops. You can do anything you want and in the unlikely event you get caught AND charged with breaking the law, it’s highly unlikely that you’ll be found guilty, but if you are the POTUS will just pardon you. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11473 "2017-09-15T15:46:34Z")
Los Angeles Times 15 Sept 2017 Deputy accused of raping 2 in jail ‘Horrific’, Sheriff Jim McDonnell says of inmate sex assault claims; arrest within hours of complaint Los Angeles – A 10 year veteran deputy of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department has been arrested, accused of raping two women inmates at a Lynwood jail, an act the sheriff termed “horrific”, officials announced Thursday. … “Criminal misconduct, especially criminal misconduct that preys upon a vulnerable population, will not be tolerated and will be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. We have a public obligation to follow the evidence and the facts.” This is a refreshing change from the usual “horror stories” we see, that usually end up demonizing the victim(s) and with the bad cop getting away (again). But we have yet to see what really happens next. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11474 "2017-09-15T15:54:05Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Los Angeles Times > 15 Sept 2017 > Deputy accused of raping 2 in jail > > ‘Horrific’, Sheriff Jim McDonnell says of inmate sex assault claims; arrest within hours of complaint > Los Angeles – A 10 year veteran deputy of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department has been arrested, accused of raping two women inmates at a Lynwood jail, an act the sheriff termed “horrific”, officials announced Thursday. … “Criminal misconduct, especially criminal misconduct that preys upon a vulnerable population, will not be tolerated and will be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. We have a public obligation to follow the evidence and the facts.” > > This is a refreshing change from the usual “horror stories” we see, that usually end up demonizing the victim(s) and with the bad cop getting away (again). > But we have yet to see what really happens next. [Here’s a link to the story](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lasd-deputy-arrest-20170914-story.html). I thought this part was interesting too: > [@](#): > > Like thousands of correctional facilities in the U.S., the county’s jails are bound by the federal Prison Rape Elimination Act, signed into law in 2003, which mandates that facilities protect inmates from sexual assault. The federal standards, enacted in 2012, include barring cross-gender strip searches and other measures to prevent inappropriate or illegal conduct. Facilities must pass an audit every three years in order to be compliant with the law. > > To date, no facility within the Los Angeles county jail system — the nation’s largest — has undergone an audit, said Karen Dalton, assistant division director of custody in the Sheriff’s Department, citing a shortage of auditors. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11475 "2017-09-15T15:59:10Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Los Angeles Times > 15 Sept 2017 > Deputy accused of raping 2 in jail > > ‘Horrific’, Sheriff Jim McDonnell says of inmate sex assault claims; arrest within hours of complaint > Los Angeles – A 10 year veteran deputy of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department has been arrested, accused of raping two women inmates at a Lynwood jail, an act the sheriff termed “horrific”, officials announced Thursday. … “Criminal misconduct, especially criminal misconduct that preys upon a vulnerable population, will not be tolerated and will be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. We have a public obligation to follow the evidence and the facts.” > > This is a refreshing change from the usual “horror stories” we see, that usually end up demonizing the victim(s) and with the bad cop getting away (again). > But we have yet to see what really happens next. 10 year vet, yeah, I’m sure it was the first time he did it. I’ll bet the sheriff was horrified, that the deputy was caught. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11476 "2017-09-15T16:15:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And I really hope that, unlike Reddit, you guys do realize that this is different from the guy actually going and robbing a bank or something. Then the funds belong to other people, for one thing. And, for another, a lot of money means more than a small bit. He’s in a rich city: $60 is not a lot. > > There are times when taking the money makes sense, even if the “evidence” concept doesn’t. Taking money that is actually likely used in a crime and holding it until the crime is proven not to have happened is not a bad idea inherently. > > Taking money as “evidence” kinda is. You can document that it exists with a camera and signed statements and such. You don’t need the actual cash. Hell, we spend money without cash all the time. > > And, no, the law saying otherwise has no bearing on anything, any more than “just following orders” is ever an excuse. So you are saying the police shouldn’t follow the law? That they should do whatever they think is best? You don’t seem to realize that there are many different POV. The law sets a standardized set of procedures that can be monitored and changed if needed. I’m not sure what your point is. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11477 "2017-09-15T16:57:45Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > So you are saying the police shouldn’t follow the law? That they should do whatever they think is best? > > You don’t seem to realize that there are many different POV. The law sets a standardized set of procedures that can be monitored and changed if needed. I’m not sure what your point is. I think the point was that the police do not follow the law, that they do whatever they think is best. The cop did not bother with the other vendors selling without a license. He did not bother the people drinking alcohol in public. He did very specifically what you think you are admonishing BigT about suggesting, selectively enforcing the law, not following a standard set of procedures. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11478 "2017-09-15T17:20:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I think the point was that the police do not follow the law, that they do whatever they think is best. The cop did not bother with the other vendors selling without a license. He did not bother the people drinking alcohol in public. > > He did very specifically what you think you are admonishing BigT about suggesting, selectively enforcing the law, not following a standard set of procedures. The law allows him to set priorities. We don’t know the vendors history with illegal vending; the merchants who might have complained about him or any health issues he might have caused. BigT seems to see the world in binary: Good (whatever he thinks that is) and evil. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11479 "2017-09-15T17:26:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Latest effort at accountability for Chicago police starts up Friday. > > As Chicago’s new police oversight agency prepared to begin operations, its chief administrator led a graduation ceremony for some 40 staffers newly trained in investigating alleged misconduct by officers. > > . . .who will staff the Civilian Office of Police Accountability > > The new agency — forged in the firestorm sparked 22 months ago by video of a police officer shooting black teenager Laquan McDonald — is expected to have about two times the budget of its predecessor, employ about 40 more workers and wield expanded technical capabilities. For example, the agency will have its own evidence specialists. COPA has also reworked training and policies as part of its bid to emphasize its independence from the Police Department… . . [http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-accountability-met-20170914-story.html](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-police-accountability-met-20170914-story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11480 "2017-09-18T13:11:36Z")
It’s rather telling about the biases of people here that no-one has linked to [this story](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41302571) yet. Only black lives matter, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11481 "2017-09-18T14:14:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Footage has emerged showing Schultz, 21, refusing to obey police commands to drop a knife, and advancing on them. > … > In a video filmed by fellow students at the Georgia Institute of Technology, Schultz is heard saying “Shoot me!” while continuing to walk towards the officers. One of them then opens fire. Suicide by cop, while sad, is not exactly the provenance of this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=573) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=575)