# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 583
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11642 "2017-10-19T23:38:34Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > The previous three trials didn’t give _any_ verdict. They were mistrials. Exactly. They didn’t give the desired verdict, so despite the jury being unable to find the defendant guilty, there were further trials. Repeated trials until the “correct” verdict is reached is not a feature of a just democracy, but of a dictatorship with kangaroo courts. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11643 "2017-10-19T23:59:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Exactly. They didn’t give the desired verdict, so despite the jury being unable to find the defendant guilty, there were further trials. Repeated trials until the “correct” verdict is reached is not a feature of a just democracy, but of a dictatorship with kangaroo courts. They were also unable to find him “Not Guity”, but it seems that distinction is lost on you. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11644 "2017-10-20T03:10:41Z")
Sometimes I feel embarrassed for Steophan, given how he parades about wearing his profound ignorance like the emperor’s new clothes. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11645 "2017-10-20T03:24:43Z")
Keep in mind that **Steophan** does not live in the US. So, fuck his asshole attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11646 "2017-10-20T04:00:10Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Exactly. They didn’t give the desired verdict, so despite the jury being unable to find the defendant guilty, there were further trials. Repeated trials until the “correct” verdict is reached is not a feature of a just democracy, but of a dictatorship with kangaroo courts. The “desired verdict” is “a verdict”. The previous three trials did not return a verdict. They were mistrials. Now, you can argue that a hung jury ought to be equivalent to a not guilty verdict. I might even get on board with that. Never really given it a lot of thought. But I think it’s just a _bit_ of a stretch to say that allowing retrial after a hung jury is characteristic of kangaroo courts. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11647 "2017-10-20T11:29:01Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > They were also unable to find him “Not Guity”, but it seems that distinction is lost on you. My point is that the inability of a jury to find someone Guilty should automatically be a Not Guilty verdict. If someone who has seen all the evidence cannot find them guilty, that is by definition reasonable doubt of guilt, as someone with all the relevant information literally has reason to doubt their guilt. I have no doubt that in a situation where a black guy was accused of shooting a cop, and the same number of trials happened before he was found guilty, there would be outrage here. And rightly so. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11648 "2017-10-20T11:32:10Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Sometimes I feel embarrassed for Steophan, given how he parades about wearing his profound ignorance like the emperor’s new clothes. It’s not ignorance to be of the opinion that no-one should be subjected to four trials before a verdict is reached. I’ve not claimed that anything illegal was done by repeatedly trying him until a guilty verdict was reached, rather that it is something that should not happen in a functional justice system. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11649 "2017-10-20T11:33:05Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I’ve never seen one of these vidoes that doesn’t scream ‘amateur policing’. > > Really, wtf is he doing standing in front of a crashing car with the driver at the wheel. > > It’s just pathetically piss poor. I linked to an article about this several pages back. It’s often in violation of police procedure, but it doesn’t matter, it’s still often how incompetent police handle these situations, they place themselves in unnecessary danger leaving few options available to both themselves and the suspect. In one case outlined in the article two cops stopped a vehicle because (and this was later shown to be false) the driver wasn’t wearing a seat belt. Their response to this horrible crime was to go at the driver Rambo style, guns drawn, pointing at the driver, and one guy jumping in FRONT of the vehicle. As you can imagine, anyone would be startled by idiot little boys playing soldier and aiming weapons at your head. The car was sill rolling when this happened. On top of that they were giving the driver different commands. Put your hands up, Stop the car. No matter what the driver did at that point, they were going to execute him. If he didn’t keep his hands up he was going to be shot, if he didn’t put the car on park he was going to be shot. He tried to put the car on park and was shot and killed. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11650 "2017-10-20T15:45:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s not ignorance to be of the opinion that no-one should be subjected to four trials before a verdict is reached. I’ve not claimed that anything illegal was done by repeatedly trying him until a guilty verdict was reached, rather that it is something that should not happen in a functional justice system. So you want to give veto power to one juror? You understand that, in the US, the verdict must be reached by unanimous consensus (which I guess is redundant, but oh well). Hence, if 11 jurors vote guilty and one steadfastly votes not guilty, you have a hung jury/mistrial. If you think that means the accused should be declared free to go, that makes you an asshole and a fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11651 "2017-10-20T15:47:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s not ignorance to be of the opinion . . . You are ignorant of double jeopardy. You should not use legal terminology when discussing a specific legal matter when you do not know what the term means. There are various ways that a hung jury is dealt with, depending on the particular legal system. Some permit re-trials and some do not. By all means voice your opinion on whether or not in certain circumstances a re-trial should be or should not be permitted following a hung jury. Bottom line: learn what the fuck you talking about before opening you yap like a drip drip drip of a syphilitic prick. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11652 "2017-10-20T15:58:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s not ignorance to be of the opinion that no-one should be subjected to four trials before a verdict is reached. I’ve not claimed that anything illegal was done by repeatedly trying him until a guilty verdict was reached, rather that it is something that should not happen in a functional justice system. In this case, the part of the justice system that was poorly functioning was the existence of people like yourself on the jury, that would not convict a cop no matter what the evidence was against them. That it took 4 trials before someone like you stopped fucking with our justice system is a travesty, but it is only a travesty that there are people that worship cops so much that they refuse to condemn them, no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11653 "2017-10-20T17:37:38Z")
In a controversial encounter with police of a different type, > [@](#): > > After raising both middle fingers and proclaiming “I hate you,” a convicted cop killer was executed in Alabama on Thursday night… > > McNabb used his last statement to tell his mother and sister that he was unafraid and he cursed at the state, saying “I hate you … I hate you.” [Cite](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/20/cop-killer-executed-in-alabama-despite-lawsuit-over-lethal-injection.html). May God have mercy on his soul, and good riddance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11654 "2017-10-20T18:10:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In a controversial encounter with police of a different type, > [Cite](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/20/cop-killer-executed-in-alabama-despite-lawsuit-over-lethal-injection.html). > > May God have mercy on his soul, and good riddance. > > Regards, > Shodan This was controversial? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11655 "2017-10-20T18:17:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This was controversial? Death penalty is controversial. The drug cocktail they used to anesthesie him before the final injection is controversial. I assume those were the issues Shodan was bringing up, otherwise, there would be no point in putting his post here. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11656 "2017-10-20T18:22:27Z")
I thought it was controversial because the family of the dead officer didn’t put “He knew what he was getting into” in their statement issued after the execution. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11657 "2017-10-20T18:26:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This was controversial? Nope. With respect to this thread, it’s well outside of the [TOR](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17803786&postcount=1). Just a way for Shodan to give his regards to folks who have concerns about police behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11658 "2017-10-20T18:35:24Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Nope. With respect to this thread, it’s well outside of the [TOR](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17803786&postcount=1). Just a way for Shodan to give his regards to folks who have concerns about police behaviour. His post pretty much acknowledges that he is threadshitting. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11659 "2017-10-20T18:45:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I thought it was controversial because the family of the dead officer didn’t put “He knew what he was getting into” in their statement issued after the execution. Eh, they probably at least could remember his name. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11660 "2017-10-20T23:55:20Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > So you want to give veto power to one juror? Before finding someone guilty? Yes, absolutely. Anything else makes a mockery of the principle that someone is innocent until _proven_ guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11661 "2017-10-20T23:57:42Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > You are ignorant of double jeopardy. You should not use legal terminology when discussing a specific legal matter when you do not know what the term means. I know what it means. I am saying that subjecting someone to multiple trials because the correct verdict isn’t reached _should_ be a violation of double jeopardy. The prosecution failed to prove guilt at any of the first three trials. They should only ever get one attempt. In my opinion, obviously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=582) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=584)