# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 599
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11962 "2017-12-13T18:17:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > From the linked article: Hmmmm - previously fired from a police force, for unsatisfactory performance. Is that some sort of trend now? It seems to have happened before … Hmmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11963 "2017-12-13T18:19:35Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > More like Barney Fife. Sounded like the cop was looking for any excuse to blow the guy away. A Harry Callahan knew exactly how many bullets he had left in his pistol. A Harry Callahan was a calm and in-charge kind of cop. These guys were nervous little twits like Barney Fife. But Barney Fife wasn’t a killer. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11964 "2017-12-13T22:39:13Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Controversial encounters meet freedom of the press: > > The Reporter Who Exposed Police Brutality in the Laquan McDonald Case May Be Forced to Reveal Sources One for the Good Guys The journalist will be allowed to retain his integrity: [http://wgntv.com/2017/12/13/reporter-jamie-kalven-wont-have-to-testify-in-jason-van-dyke-trial/](http://wgntv.com/2017/12/13/reporter-jamie-kalven-wont-have-to-testify-in-jason-van-dyke-trial/) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11965 "2017-12-14T03:41:53Z")
Cops in Grand Rapids, MI were out looking for a suspect in a homicide. The person they were looking for is a 40 year old white woman. Somehow, while canvassing the neighborhood, the cops end up drawing their guns and cuffing an 11 year old black girl. She was, apparently, coming toward them too fast. She was walking toward them backwards, with her hands up, as they had ordered. I guess they were concerned about the threat posed to them by the 11 year old girl. AFAICT neither the 11 year old girl nor her mom were suspected of a crime. I don’t know what happened prior to the start of the video that may have caused the two armed, trained police officers to regard the 11 year old girl as a threat. > **[Video shows officers handcuffing a shrieking 11-year-old at gunpoint](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/13/video-shows-officers-handcuffing-a-shrieking-11-year-old-at-gunpoint/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.efc78a519c7c)** > > The incident is the second time this year police in Grand Rapids have pulled a gun on a black child who had done nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11966 "2017-12-14T11:17:09Z")
Yes, the city of Chicago has spent well over a half of a BILLION dollars settling police misconduct cases in the last dozen or so years. > **[Chicago approves paying $31M to 4 wrongfully convicted men](https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/chicago-approves-paying-31m-to-4-wrongfully-convicted-men)** > > The Chicago City Council has approved a $31 million settlement to be shared by four men who each spent more than a decade in prison for the rape and murder of a prostitute before being exonerated by DNA evidence. “Approving police misconduct cases has become a familiar chore for Chicago’s leaders and the city has spent more than $660 million since 2004 on settling the cases.” ETA: Source is the local Fox affiliate, NOT Faux Cable Bullshit ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11967 "2017-12-14T16:09:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Even when you correct for socio-economic status, crime rates are higher in majority-black communities than for majority-white. [Cite](http://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2017/02/16/race_and_rising_violent_crime.html). Police tend to kill violent criminals, and violent criminals are disproportionately black. > > Regards, > Shodan You got a cite? I ask because: “McCoy noted that this has more to do with income than race. The felony rates for poor whites are similar to those of poor blacks.” > **[Talk show host: Police kill more whites than blacks](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/)** > > The turmoil in Ferguson, Mo., has spurred many assertions that blacks are unfairly victimized by police. Conservative ta ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11968 "2017-12-14T16:10:14Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > But Barney Fife wasn’t a killer. Yeah but that’s because they took away all his bullets except one that he kept in his shirt pocket. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11969 "2017-12-14T16:31:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You got a cite? It’s in my post. _:shrugs:_ Shodan’s Law - if they didn’t read it the first time, they won’t read it the second time either. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11970 "2017-12-14T21:57:29Z")
The initial events happened a long time ago, but the effects are still being felt today: [I Was Tortured By The Chicago PD: This Is What I Saw](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2555-i-was-tortured-by-chicago-pd-this-what-i-saw.html) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11971 "2017-12-14T23:37:00Z")
[Craziness in DC from year ago starting to reverberate in courtrooms.](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ned3zg/the-strange-saga-of-arrested-inauguration-protesters-seized-property) > [@](#): > > Nearly a year after the J20 protests, the cops don’t seem to know exactly what they took from those arrested, or from who. > [@](#): > > Instead, the government’s case against the defendants relies in part on proving the items they brought with them to the protest are evidence of a planned riot. > > One item, initially presented by the prosecution as a “baton,” turned out to be a camera tripod belonging to Wood. But the sloppiness of law enforcement in this case extends much deeper: On Monday, it was revealed in court by Wood’s defense counsel that his property logs from his detention did not match the belongings the prosecution claims are his. > > These property logs are documents the police give you when they are claiming your belongings as evidence in an investigation. Since the police arrested more than 200 people, they needed to fill out more than 200 receipts, many with multiple items each. But in the courtroom, it was obvious that the process hadn’t been smooth: In several cases, arresting officers could not confirm which items belonged to which defendant. But that’s not all! > [@](#): > > the police were not returning accurate property receipts to the detainees, and many did not have their wallets and driver’s licenses returned. “They tried to keep everything,” Jamie told me. For the out-of-towners arrested, Jamie said it was “a transparent attempt to punish them just for being there.” > [@](#): > > Alex Rubinstein, who covered the inauguration protests on assignment for RT America, also described difficulties getting the police to return an accurate property log in a Medium post recounting his experience: “They kept telling me that even if my property wasn’t documented, I would get it back nonetheless. I knew better than to think that items deprived of a paper trail last very long in any government office.” > [@](#): > > Lagesse experienced similar resistance getting the police to return an accurate property receipt. “Mine didn’t list my cellphone,” she said. “Some people’s phones were listed on their receipts, others weren’t.” Her phone was one of more than 100 seized by police, a move criticized by civil liberties activists. ---
**Author:** ![ElderSign](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eldersign/32/8263_2.png) [@ElderSign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElderSign)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11972 "2017-12-15T13:35:55Z")
Regarding horrific Mesa, AZ Daniel Shaver hotel shooting + acquittal, I am trying to wrap my ahead around the jury’s decision and I just can’t, except that once again lawyers and a judge focused on 1) How we MUST understand and follow the instructions of law enforcement officers literally and quickly no matter what the circumstances; and 2) If officers feel threatened- even if the threat is imaginary (they assumed a gun was in his back pocket and he was going to draw and actually hit them), killing is justified. I guess society would collapse, according to the courts, if officers have to take things into context, wait to actually see a weapon, or try to deescalate situations. Daniel was clearly trying to comply and was probably slow due to being drunk, but all the shouting and having guns pointed at him made him more nervous. He failed at playing Simon Says under stressful circumstances. It’s a cop power trip. I used to watch baseball back in the day, and some umpires would be jerks just to get a guy ejected, while others let them blow off steam, and after the games they would drink beers together. The video in this case demonstrated- if you do not follow instructions about left foot, right foot, kneeling, fingers interlacing, arms down, arms up, and crawling- to the tee, they will shoot you. Philip Brailsford may have been the killer, and by all his other incidents is horrible person, but it is Sgt. Charles Langley’s voice that intimidates, threatens, and makes nervous Daniel. Langley (now retired and living like a king in the Philippines) should have been brought up on charges too. Brailsford and Langley are the real criminals here, closer to Stephen Paddock than some unlucky drunk dude in a hotel. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11973 "2017-12-19T19:15:48Z")
[More from the clusterfuck that is the Baltimore Police Department.](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-burley-conviction-vacated-20171218-story.html) > [@](#): > > Umar Burley was freed from prison in August — seven years into a 15-year sentence — as prosecutors pursued allegations that Baltimore Police Sgt. Wayne Jenkins planted drugs in Burley’s car following a deadly high-speed chase in 2010. Jenkins was arrested in March along with the rest of his squad, and charged with robbing citizens and falsifying documents for years. > > On Monday, U.S. District Judge Richard D. Bennett vacated Burley’s conviction, as well as the conviction of a second man, Brent Matthews, who served almost four years in prison. And the consequences keep building: > [@](#): > > Five former Gun Trace Task Force members have pleaded guilty, while three others — including Jenkins — are slated for a trial next month. The city has received notice of more than 40 civil claims related to the officers, while city prosecutors have moved to release more than 175 people who were facing charges or were convicted in cases brought by the task force members. The Maryland public defender’s office says that by their count, more than 2,000 state cases are “irreparably” tainted. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11974 "2017-12-28T03:03:54Z")
[Alabama cops beat the shit out of a 17 year old.](https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliareinstein/this-17-year-old-was-brutalized-during-a-police-encounter?utm_term=.nwxe682RMn#.cyaN47ArVz) They claim he had a gun, but they dropped all charges against him. I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11975 "2017-12-28T13:28:31Z")
Hey, he reached for his waistband like he was trying to grab a weapon! I can’t think of anything more dangerous. Except maybe the cops actually SEEING a weapon ☹ ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11976 "2017-12-28T16:18:42Z")
Isn’t this a good sign that times may be changing ? Usually this kind of situation have ended the kid having dozen or more bullets in his body. ( Also **AtomicDog** ; there’s a typo in your sig line 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11977 "2017-12-28T17:40:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Hey, he reached for his waistband like he was trying to grab a weapon! If they’re even being honest about that much. We’ll see (eventually) whether or not body camera video exists – and if so, if it upholds the officers’ version of events. Something’s gotta give somewhere. “_Reaching for the waistband_” is becoming the new “_I was in fear for my life_”. Police officers, as I understand it, are taught that once they actually _see_ and _visually confirm_ the weapon in the hands of the perpetrator, it’s too late to defend themselves. So, I don’t know where that goes in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11978 "2017-12-28T18:17:14Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Something’s gotta give somewhere. “_Reaching for the waistband_” is becoming the new “_I was in fear for my life_”. Police officers, as I understand it, are taught that once they actually _see_ and _visually confirm_ the weapon in the hands of the perpetrator, it’s too late to defend themselves Yeah, I think that training standard is a bunch of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11979 "2017-12-28T19:48:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s in my post. > > _:shrugs:_ > > Shodan’s Law - if they didn’t read it the first time, they won’t read it the second time either. > > Regards, > Shodan Well shoot, you hid the cite under the word “cite” How the hell was I supposed to figure THAT out. Yes black culture is more violent for all sorts of historical reasons and toxic cultures have a way of perpetuating themselves. But the high correlation between poverty rates and getting shot by police is hard to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11980 "2017-12-28T19:55:32Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > Isn’t this a good sign that times may be changing ? Usually this kind of situation have ended the kid having dozen or more bullets in his body. > > ( Also **AtomicDog** ; there’s a typo in your sig line 😉 ) Hunh, I expected the kid to be white. Then I saw he was a baseball fan which is almost the same thing. Not to derail the thread but when did baseball become so white? I go to basketball and football games and there is some diversity in the crowd. I got o a baseball game where the tickets are much cheaper and its like the cast and crew of braveheart. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/11981 "2017-12-28T20:03:27Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, I think that training standard is a bunch of crap. How so? "Keep your hands where I can see them"seems like a reasonable request. Shooting someone who is facedown on his belly seems less reasonable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=598) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=600)