# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 602
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12022 "2017-12-30T18:45:42Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > Yes, there have been people shot for holding their pants up or similar - but NOT for holding a gun. > > You are absolutely correct here. You, however, are _not_ correct, they have not been shot for that reason. They have been shot either because the cop felt a reasonable fear of death or serious injury, or they have been killed unlawfully, because the cop is either paranoid or a murderer. The last two are obviously much rarer. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12023 "2017-12-30T18:47:09Z")
Some audio and video of the Wichita shooting: https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?height=224&width=400&href=https://www.facebook.com/WichitaPolice/videos/10155490668424514/ Any thougths? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12024 "2017-12-30T18:49:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You’re just taking the worst, most fearful position possible No, I’m taking the worst most fearful position _reasonable_. Which is everyone’s right when being threatened with a gun, including cops. You, me, and they have every right to defend ourselves well before there’s a gun pointed at us, and to say otherwise is simply to say that you don’t believe that we have a right to self defence. If that’s what you belive - that we don’t have a right to self defence, a right (but emphatically _not_ an obligation) to treat our own lives as more valuable than another’s, then say so. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12025 "2017-12-30T19:13:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I am not sure what you can charge the guy who called the police with … Some sort of [crime](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/nyregion/brooklyn-man-is-convicted-of-making-false-911-calls.html) > [@](#): > > A man who was a regular at police precinct community council meetings in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, was convicted on Wednesday of making a rash of fake calls to the city’s 911 system … Louis Segna, was found guilty in State Supreme Court in Brooklyn of three counts of falsely reporting an incident.… is scheduled to be sentenced on Sept. 5. He faces up to seven years in prison … How serious the crime is ranked probably depends on the state, but I think it is at least a misdemeanor everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12026 "2017-12-30T19:32:15Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Some sort of [crime](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/nyregion/brooklyn-man-is-convicted-of-making-false-911-calls.html) > How serious the crime is ranked probably depends on the state, but I think it is at least a misdemeanor everywhere. For this instance, I am relying on the deterrence aspect of our theory of justice. I don’t think that this guy needs to be removed from society for society’s safety, I don’t think he needs to be controlled for rehabilitation. He is one of those rare people that I feel should be punished to serve as an example to others. I am usually against that aspect of theory of justice, as I don’t think that it really does much good for 90%+ of crimes. Desperate people don’t care about the consequences that their desperation leads them to. This is definitely one of those times though, that knowing that these actions can get you tossed in jail for a good long while may make some asshole think twice before pulling this shit. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12027 "2017-12-30T19:34:50Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You, however, are _not_ correct, they have not been shot for that reason. They have been shot either because the cop felt a reasonable fear of death or serious injury, or they have been killed unlawfully, because the cop is either paranoid or a murderer. The last two are obviously much rarer. Which category does the Philando Castile killing fit? Should niggers be allowed to carry handguns? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12028 "2017-12-30T19:39:45Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Some audio and video of the Wichita shooting: > [Officer Involved shooting | The following is a the 911 audio and video of the officer involved shooting we release today during our press conference, please be advised the following... | By Wichita Police DepartmentFacebook](https://www.facebook.com/WichitaPolice/videos/10155490668424514/) > > Any thougths? Not much to see on that video, interesting phone call, though. The kid on the phone said it was a single story house. Was the shooting at the front porch of that 3 story house in the video? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12029 "2017-12-30T19:47:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You, however, are _not_ correct, they have not been shot for that reason. They have been shot either because the cop felt a reasonable fear of death or serious injury, or they have been killed unlawfully, because the cop is either paranoid or a murderer. The last two are obviously much rarer. Most of these situations involve a cop who is a pussy or a thug. Most of these are not lawful shootings. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12030 "2017-12-30T20:00:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > This is definitely one of those times though, that knowing that these actions can get you tossed in jail for a good long while may make some asshole think twice before pulling this shit. …indeed. These bastards have been playing with fire for a while and they’ve essentially been getting away with it. This wasn’t, as some have been characterizing it, “a mere prank.” ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12031 "2017-12-30T20:01:45Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You, however, are _not_ correct, they have not been shot for that reason. They have been shot either because the cop felt a reasonable fear of death or serious injury, or they have been killed unlawfully, because the cop is either paranoid or a murderer. The last two are obviously much rarer. Oh, it was so close. But you had to put the word “reasonable” there and that totally demolished your post. But it was close, I’ll give you that. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12032 "2017-12-30T20:16:35Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …indeed. These bastards have been playing with fire for a while and they’ve essentially been getting away with it. This wasn’t, as some have been characterizing it, “a mere prank.” This is the same kind of prank as dropping things from interstate overpasses and hoping it doesn’t kill someone when the “weight” hits a car. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12033 "2017-12-30T20:23:12Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > This is the same kind of prank as dropping things from interstate overpasses and hoping it doesn’t kill someone when the “weight” hits a car. Same in some ways, but far more cowardly. Of course, this also was not a random attack, he thought he was calling the police on the guy he was playing games with. It would be like trying to drop a weight on a particular person’s car as they drove under, but hit someone else entirely instead. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12034 "2017-12-30T20:28:45Z")
Fair point up there about how in a real hostage situation they could have shot a hostage. (Jeez, come on, are we really expecting any dude you confront to be the goddamn Waco Kid?) But… > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …indeed. These bastards have been playing with fire for a while and they’ve essentially been getting away with it. This wasn’t, as some have been characterizing it, “a mere prank.” Absolutely. Even under the most generous reading of reasonable police actions as presented in this thread, any reasonable person living today must know that \*provoking \*a police confrontation under pretext of a violent crime means putting lives in imminent real danger. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12035 "2017-12-30T21:45:11Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > If he knew this was a real address, probably. If he knew who lived there and had some grudge against him, absolutely. Thats a damn good point ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12036 "2017-12-30T22:39:51Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Some audio and video of the Wichita shooting: > [Officer Involved shooting | The following is a the 911 audio and video of the officer involved shooting we release today during our press conference, please be advised the following... | By Wichita Police DepartmentFacebook](https://www.facebook.com/WichitaPolice/videos/10155490668424514/) > > Any thougths? He was unarmed, had no idea wht was going on and probably couldn’t hear a thing at that distance especially if car engines were running. Utterly pathetic and amateur. Again. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12037 "2017-12-30T22:41:28Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Which category does the Philando Castile killing fit? > Should niggers be allowed to carry handguns? Self defence, and yes. As I understand it, Castile was not holding the gun at any point in his interaction with the police, so it’s not relevant to this conversation. The cop believed he was in danger, and the jury agreed. So, self defence. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12038 "2017-12-30T22:46:11Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Most of these situations involve a cop who is a pussy or a thug. Most of these are not lawful shootings. I’ve been repeatedly informed by posters in this thread that calling people thugs is racist. Are you racist as well as misogynistic? And you are factually wrong that most of the shootings are unlawful. The vast majority have been investigated, and the opposite has been found. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12039 "2017-12-30T23:00:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Self defence, and yes. > > As I understand it, Castile was not holding the gun at any point in his interaction with the police, so it’s not relevant to this conversation. The cop believed he was in danger, and the jury agreed. So, self defence. That’s a pretty nice jump. He was never holding a gun, therefore, self defense. That justifies a cop murdering anyone at all, for any reason at all. Self defense. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12040 "2017-12-30T23:09:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Self defence, and yes. > > As I understand it, Castile was not holding the gun at any point in his interaction with the police, so it’s not relevant to this conversation. **The cop believed he was in danger, and the jury agreed. So, self defence**. If I may pick a nit, the jury did not necessarily agree that the cop was, in fact, in danger. What they agreed on was that there wasn’t enough evidence to show that he did not legitimately perceive a threat to his life. I have felt that the Philando Castile and the Tulsa shootings are perhaps more complicated than some of the other high profile incidents that have occurred. One thing that has to be acknowledged is that officers patrol a nation that is armed to the teeth. Yes, individuals have the legal right to carry firearms but the intent of the individual possessing them can easily be misconstrued, rightly or wrongly. That’s one of several reasons I no longer own firearms and probably never will again, though I won’t say never. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12041 "2017-12-30T23:12:39Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ve been repeatedly informed by posters in this thread that calling people thugs is racist. Are you racist as well as misogynistic? > > And you are factually wrong that most of the shootings are unlawful. The vast majority have been investigated, and the opposite has been found. Juries make errors all the time. Cops don’t investigate other cops properly. Prosecutors need to be reelected. The system is broken and not being convicted doesnt mean that the cop is justified in killing another person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=601) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=603)