# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1201 "2015-03-19T14:28:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then you chose very poorly. “Fighting” definitely implies physical violence If I were to say “Mr. and Mrs. Brainsample fought for several hours about the family’s finances”, would I be in the wrong if they had never actually taken a swing at each other? > [@](#): > > You presented a dishonest one. If you present an honest defense, then I’ll consider it. Then I’ll present it again. He was underage. He was drunk and/or verbally belligerent, he refused to vacate the premises on his own, and he was taken into custody without the use of weapons or disproportionate force, and suffered only minor superficial abrasions [as can be seen in his mugshot.](http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/martese-johnson-638x358.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1202 "2015-03-19T14:47:58Z")
Look, Mr “Mike is not your real name, _Michael_” is pulling the “_I_ was speaking colloquially” defense… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1203 "2015-03-19T14:49:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Look, Mr “Mike is not your real name, _Michael_” is pulling the “_I_ was speaking colloquially” defense… Are you a cop? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1204 "2015-03-19T14:49:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If I were to say “Mr. and Mrs. Brainsample fought for several hours about the family’s finances”, would I be in the wrong if they had never actually taken a swing at each other? You said he fought with the people who were trying to keep him out. That’s a false assertion, unless you specifically note that he was not physically violent in any way. > [@](#): > > Then I’ll present it again. He was underage. He was drunk and/or verbally belligerent, he refused to vacate the premises on his own, and he was taken into custody without the use of weapons or disproportionate force, and suffered only minor superficial abrasions [as can be seen in his mugshot.](http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/martese-johnson-638x358.jpg) This is a different argument than the one you made before. It might be reasonable (and we don’t know yet if the force was “disproportionate”). I think further investigation is warranted, as do the local authorities, apparently, and I look forward to seeing what the investigators find. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1205 "2015-03-19T15:05:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Are you a cop? Does your mother charge, or does she fuck hobos for free? What the hell kind of insulting question is that to ask me? “Are you a cop?” Might as well ask “Are you a Nazi?”, “Do you fuck sheep?” or “Are you a furry?” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1206 "2015-03-19T15:07:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What the hell kind of insulting question is that to ask me? “Are you a cop?” Might as well ask “Are you a Nazi?”, “Do you fuck sheep?” or “Are you a furry?” So you consider the police - _all police_ - morally equivalent to Nazis. That’s good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1207 "2015-03-19T15:23:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you consider the police - _all police_ - morally equivalent to Nazis. > > That’s good to know. On average, you and MrDibble consider cops to be patron saints of sanctity. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1208 "2015-03-19T15:26:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Does your mother charge, or does she fuck hobos for free? > > What the hell kind of insulting question is that to ask me? “Are you a cop?” Might as well ask “Are you a Nazi?”, “Do you fuck sheep?” or “Are you a furry?” Bullshit. Cops, unlike the other things you mentioned, are necessary to the functioning of society. Although I’ll remember your insults to furries next time you accuse someone else of prejudice… Someone’s sexual preferences are not fair game for that, any more than skin colour is. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1209 "2015-03-19T15:50:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Does your mother charge, or does she fuck hobos for free? > > What the hell kind of insulting question is that to ask me? “Are you a cop?” Might as well ask “Are you a Nazi?”, “Do you fuck sheep?” or “Are you a furry?” Why you gotta hate on the furries? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1210 "2015-03-19T15:51:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > On average, you and MrDibble consider cops to be patron saints of sanctity. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. Nazy saints of sanctity. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1211 "2015-03-19T16:06:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So you consider the police - _all police_ - morally equivalent to Nazis. No, I find being mistaken for one _as odious_. I don’t consider Nazis, bestialists and furries to be _equally_ reprehensible. But I don’t want to be mistaken for any of them ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1212 "2015-03-19T16:09:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Bullshit. Cops, unlike the other things you mentioned, are necessary to the functioning of society. So no society existed before the invention of police. Good to know. > [@](#): > > Although I’ll remember your insults to furries next time you accuse someone else of prejudice… Someone’s sexual preferences are not fair game for that, any more than skin colour is. I give a fuck what your racist ass finds to play gotcha-ya with… …And I didn’t see you defending sheep fuckers. Is there a dog costume hanging next to the white hood in someone’s closet, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1213 "2015-03-19T16:11:27Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Why you gotta hate on the furries? I _don’t_ gotta. I _choose_ to. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1214 "2015-03-19T16:14:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So no society existed before the invention of police. Before we had police, we had the sheriff and his posse. If mob justice is what you’d _prefer_… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1215 "2015-03-19T16:14:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So no society existed before the invention of police. Good to know. Not without someone to enforce the rules, no. It’s one of the main purposes of society, along with protecting the group from outsiders that would cause harm. > [@](#): > > …And I didn’t see you defending sheep fuckers. Is there a dog costume hanging next to the white hood in someone’s closet, I wonder? What if there is, bigot? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1216 "2015-03-19T16:17:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Before we had police, we had the sheriff and his posse. If mob justice is what you’d _prefer_… This is _exactly_ what pisses me off about the whole “anti-cop” attitude. They completely ignore that fact that things are far better than they used to be, and continue to get better all the time, in favour of tossing around nonsensical comparisons to Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1217 "2015-03-19T16:21:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > This is _exactly_ what pisses me off about the whole “anti-cop” attitude. They completely ignore that fact that things are far better than they used to be, and continue to get better all the time, in favour of tossing around nonsensical comparisons to Nazis. So you’re fine with all the reasonable criticism and questioning of the police (which doesn’t constitute an “anti-cop” attitude) that doesn’t compare them to Nazis? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1218 "2015-03-19T16:24:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Before we had police, we had the sheriff and his posse. If mob justice is what you’d _prefer_… No, I prefer community-based security bodies and the rule of law. Not rule by the best-armed gang of thugs with the spiffiest uniforms. > [@Steophan](#): > > Not without someone to enforce the rules, no. It’s perfectly possible to have enforcement of the law without a professional police force. > [@](#): > > What if there is, bigot? Ha! Talk about the pot calling the kettle … well, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1219 "2015-03-19T16:27:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s perfectly possible to have enforcement of the law without a professional police force. Name one place in the world where “enforcement of the law without a professional police force” is happening in this day and age. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1220 "2015-03-19T16:29:45Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > They completely ignore that fact that things are far better than they used to be Where I live, things got better than they used to be when the cops were _dis_empowered. Things “used to be” an actual police state. So don’t come telling me how much I “need” the police - I need the police like I need a hole in my head (which, incidentally, is what the police gave one of my high school classmates) > [@](#): > > nonsensical comparisons to Nazis. Armed, uniformed thugs enforcing a racial-biased regime of oppression on a minority population…yeah, _nothing_ Nazi about that… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=62)