# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 622
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12422 "2018-01-14T07:30:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, he was being antisocial _and_ black Yeah, but it was the being black thing that made you start compulsively masturbating when you learned he’d been murdered, right? ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12423 "2018-01-14T07:33:26Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > Blasting RAP music will make any police officer or person apprehensive. If you listen to rap and thoroughly enjoy it, you may enjoy the lifestyle associated with it. The lifestyle being crime. > > Next time you see a car blasting rap music, go up to the very next one, preferably with window tints and knock and ask them to turn it down. You’ll get a threat, at minimum. That apprehensiveness you feel, police feel as well and keeps them on their guard, which can have disastrous consequences, especially if someone makes quick movements. > > Not saying the killing was justified, just putting this out there. Around here, the next vehicle I see blasting rap will most likely be a pickup driven by a redneck. I hear a lot of the kids are listening to it these days. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12424 "2018-01-14T07:34:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > But you \*are \*a liar. IF you don’t like being called a liar, maybe you should stop lying–if your mental illnesses will let you. > > As for the insults, you’re pretty much a worthless sack of shit. Anyone who says anything less insulting than that is actually complementing you. You should thank them. When you go to other forums and start saying that, you’ll be on a level with iiandyiiii. Until then you’re just a standard ignoramus, not some sort of obsessive. Also, maybe educate yourself a bit about mental illness. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12425 "2018-01-14T07:35:17Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yeah, but it was the being black thing that made you start compulsively masturbating when you learned he’d been murdered, right? No, that was the memory of fucking your mother. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12426 "2018-01-14T07:36:43Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Around here, the next vehicle I blasting rap will be a pickup driven by a redneck. > > I hear a lot of the kids are listening to it these days. Fucking cultural appropriation ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12427 "2018-01-14T07:44:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, that was the memory of fucking your mother. My mother’s been dead longer than you’ve been alive, so we can add necrophiliac to the list of your personal failings, right next to racist and bad at insults. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12428 "2018-01-14T07:54:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Also, maybe educate yourself a bit about mental illness. Educate me–is your mental illness the reason you lie so much? Is it the reason for your hateful racist statements? Is it the reason for your weird masturbatory fascination with murdered black kids? Or, are you just a worthless sack of shit? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12429 "2018-01-14T07:59:24Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Educate me–is your mental illness the reason you lie so much? Is it the reason for your hateful racist statements? Is it the reason for your weird masturbatory fascination with murdered black kids? > > Or, are you just a worthless sack of shit? What’s the reason for your inability to comprehend what I write? No lies, no racism, and none of the dead kids I’ve written about recently were murdered. The only one who was us Emmett Till, ironically where there was a miscarriage of justice. I would say try harder, but either you’re senile or you didn’t have a mother to raise you, so I suppose you deserve sympathy instead. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12430 "2018-01-14T08:21:39Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No lies, no racism, and none of the dead kids I’ve written about recently were murdered. Is your mental illness the reason you can’t distinguish fantasy from reality? Because I assure you in the real world you lie more than anyone who posts to this board who hasn’t been banned yet, you’re a racist, and Davis was, factually, murdered. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12431 "2018-01-14T13:52:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You know what isn’t normal human behaviour? Following someone around the internet, calling them a liar, and insulting them. Especially when the things you call lies are either deliberate misinterpretations of what I’ve said (as in this case), actually true or at worst debatable, or often both of the above. No, they’re straight up lies. You lied about me (you still haven’t provided a cite for the false thing you said about me), and you’re lying about Davis. What you’re saying about Davis is contrary to the facts. If you’re so fragile that having your lies pointed out here or elsewhere hurts your feelings, then maybe you should stop lying, and apologize for your past lies. If you apologized for saying false things about me, I’d certainly stop reminding everyone of what a liar you are. > [@](#): > > Firstly, it’s not bullshit, any noise loud enough to vibrate a car from a few feet away is enough to damage hearing. And secondly, neither Dunn nor I have claimed that music would be enough to justify any form of physical interaction. > > What is allowable is defending yourself against threats of imminent violence, which is what Dunn claimed the antisocial, argumentative guy in the car was doing. That Davis’s behaviour escalated to threatening is hardly impossible to believe, despite what you say. Bullshit. Dunn’s own girlfriend contradicted his testimony, as did the other witnesses (who were victims of an actual crime - Dunn shooting at them - unlike Dunn). Dunn is a proven liar. He was convicted, because the jury believed the actual crime victims and didn’t believe Dunn’s lies. > [@](#): > > What does shooting at them have to do with his honesty? He didn’t lie about doing that. And to say, as you are, that because he’s guilty of one crime, he must be guilty of another, separate crime is hugely unjust. Not surprising from you, as you seem to have no concept of justice, rather thinking that you know everything and that the vengeance you call for us necessarily right. > > Regardless of anything else, Davis’s behaviour to Dunn was indefensible. His death doesn’t change that, and even if Dunn did murder him, it doesn’t change that. > > But hey, you keep on assuming that people who report being victims of crime are liars. Maybe you could go work for Trump, or somewhere in Hollywood. They’ll be looking for people who can argue that point as tenaciously as you. Your tedious and inaccurate characterisation of those you disagree with as liars, instead of refuting their arguments, is also remarkably Trumpian. Perhaps you should make a bit more effort not to remind one so much of a sad, pathetic, barely literate, self-important buffoon. You’re the one not believing actual victims of crimes - the other kids Dunn shot at. They said there was no threat and no violent behavior from Davis. The jury rightfully believed them, since their testimony was consistent with the facts, and Dunn’s wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12432 "2018-01-14T19:10:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re the one not believing actual victims of crimes - the other kids Dunn shot at. I’ve repeatedly said Dunn belongs in jail for attempted murder. You fail terribly, again. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12433 "2018-01-14T19:31:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ve repeatedly said Dunn belongs in jail for attempted murder. You fail terribly, again. Yes, but you are also delighted that the driver of the SUV was killed. You don’t think that Dunn should be in jail for the actual murder that he committed, because you are happy that that “thug” is off the streets. Look, there’s nothing wrong with being a racist\*. Just admit it, you don’t like black people, and when you hear that a black person has been killed, it makes you happy enough to laud the killer, no matter the circumstances. \*FTR, I do think that there is much wrong with being a racist, but we are all free to be the way we need to be. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12434 "2018-01-14T20:06:35Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ve repeatedly said Dunn belongs in jail for attempted murder. You fail terribly, again. So you accept their account, that Davis didn’t say anything threatening, and didn’t do anything violent or dangerous at all? Good for you! I applaud you on your massive reversal of your ridiculous and dishonest position of the last several posts. Good on you for recognizing that Davis’s friends are not liars, and are in fact victims of a terrible crime, and their account is far, far more trustworthy than the liar and violent criminal Dunn. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12435 "2018-01-15T00:25:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you accept their account, that Davis didn’t say anything threatening, and didn’t do anything violent or dangerous at all? Good for you! I applaud you on your massive reversal of your ridiculous and dishonest position of the last several posts. Good on you for recognizing that Davis’s friends are not liars, and are in fact victims of a terrible crime, and their account is far, far more trustworthy than the liar and violent criminal Dunn. You are remarkably poor at reading. You are also remarkably poor at judging behaviour, if you think there’s a similarity between shooting someone who, we are agreed, at minimum was loudly argumentative, and shooting at a car driving away from you. It is entirely possible, _based solely on what we agree are facts_, to believe that Dunn is guilty of murder but not attempted murder. You are really, really bad at analysis of situations. The sum total of your arguments in these threads comes to “this guy killed someone, so he _must_ be a criminal and a liar”, ignoring that killing people is not (by itself, there are always other elements required) a crime, and that attempting to kill someone (lawfully or otherwise), even _actually_ killing someone, have no bearing on whether they are a liar or not. You utterly discount the possibility that Dunn reacted reasonably to Davis, but not to the others, based as far as I can tell on the testimony of his fiance - who didn’t witness the incident. I expect, and everyone should require, extraordinarily strong proof before claiming that someone who reports being the victim of a crime is in fact a criminal themselves. A he-said she-said dispute over _exactly_ how aggressively one was arguin with the other does not approach that level. It seems to me that you are fundamentally unable to separate the shooting of Davis with the attempted murder of the others, believing that his guilt in one case implies his guilt in the other. It doesn’t, they were different actions at different - albeit close times, and should be considered as such. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12436 "2018-01-15T00:28:00Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You are remarkably poor at reading. You are also remarkably poor at judging behaviour, if you think there’s a similarity between shooting someone who, we are agreed, at minimum was loudly argumentative, and shooting at a car driving away from you. > > It is entirely possible, _based solely on what we agree are facts_, to believe that Dunn is guilty of murder but not attempted murder. More bullshit. No, there is no difference between shooting at someone who isn’t behaving threatening, violent, or dangerous to you in any way and shooting at a car driving away. No difference at all, which is why the jury found him guilty. The jury was right, you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12437 "2018-01-15T00:29:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, but you are also delighted that the driver of the SUV was killed. No, I’m if anything delighted that Dunn was convicted of attempting to murder the driver. Perhaps you should find out the basic facts at least before commenting. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12438 "2018-01-15T00:36:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > More bullshit. No, there is no difference between shooting at someone who isn’t behaving threatening, violent, or dangerous to you in any way and shooting at a car driving away. No difference at all, which is why the jury found him guilty. That’s false, for starters. There are situations where it would be reasonable, if false, to believe that someone shouting at you from a car was an imminent threat. That’s not the case with the car driving away. > [@](#): > > The jury was right, you are wrong. You honestly belive that there is no chance whatsoever that Davis acted in a way that would make a reasonable person feel threatened? I don’t believe that, and I doubt anyone here actually does. I think you, and they, believe it is _unlikely_, to whatever extent, that he did, and are willing to convict someone of murder based on likelihood, not proof. _Prove_ beyond reasonable doubt that Davis did or said nothing that could cause a reasonable person to fear imminent attack. Not suggest it, not probability based on preponderance of evidence, incontrovertible proof. If you can’t, either the jury was wrong, or the law is hideously unjust. I don’t give a fuck if half the world kills the other half and claims self defence, prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was not self defence, that no reasonable person could possibly have felt fear of imminent attack, or they are innocent. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12439 "2018-01-15T01:22:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That’s false, for starters. There are situations where it would be reasonable, if false, to believe that someone shouting at you from a car was an imminent threat. That’s not the case with the car driving away. That was not the case in this situation. > [@](#): > > You honestly belive that there is no chance whatsoever that Davis acted in a way that would make a reasonable person feel threatened? Yes, that’s what the evidence shows. Dunn lied about a threat with a gun, and all the evidence said there was no threat and certainly no gun. Even his own girlfriend’s testimony. You really believe that there’s a chance that he was threatened by a gun but didn’t tell his girlfriend about it? > [@](#): > > I don’t believe that, and I doubt anyone here actually does. I think you, and they, believe it is _unlikely_, to whatever extent, that he did, and are willing to convict someone of murder based on likelihood, not proof. Wrong again. Beyond a reasonable doubt there was no behavior that would make a reasonable person feel threatened. A slam dunk case, in fact – Dunn made up a story that was contrary to all the other facts, including his own girlfriend’s testimony. > [@](#): > > _Prove_ beyond reasonable doubt that Davis did or said nothing that could cause a reasonable person to fear imminent attack. Not suggest it, not probability based on preponderance of evidence, incontrovertible proof. If you can’t, either the jury was wrong, or the law is hideously unjust. Already done – Dunn’s own testimony was bullshit, beyond a reasonable doubt, due to all the evidence contradicting it, including the testimony of everyone else present. > [@](#): > > I don’t give a fuck if half the world kills the other half and claims self defence, prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was not self defence, that no reasonable person could possibly have felt fear of imminent attack, or they are innocent. Yes, we know you’re a crazy idiot as well as a liar. Most of us would “give a fuck if half the world kills the other half…”; crazy idiots like you don’t. And you’re a liar, of course, making shit up about me and not backing it up. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12440 "2018-01-15T02:52:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you can’t, either the jury was wrong, or the law is hideously unjust. Your respect for the rule of law goes right out the window when it results in a white man being convicted for the murder of a black kid, doesn’t it? Weird how opposite it is from your respect for the law when it results in a white man being found not guilty for the murder of a black kid. Boy, I wonder why that is. You’re probably too stupid to understand sarcasm, so I’ll spell it out–you’re a dirty racist. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12441 "2018-01-15T03:09:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That was not the case in this situation. > > Yes, that’s what the evidence shows. Dunn lied about a threat with a gun, and all the evidence said there was no threat and certainly no gun. Even his own girlfriend’s testimony. You really believe that there’s a chance that he was threatened by a gun but didn’t tell his girlfriend about it? > > Wrong again. Beyond a reasonable doubt there was no behavior that would make a reasonable person feel threatened. A slam dunk case, in fact – Dunn made up a story that was contrary to all the other facts, including his own girlfriend’s testimony. > > Already done – Dunn’s own testimony was bullshit, beyond a reasonable doubt, due to all the evidence contradicting it, including the testimony of everyone else present. > > Yes, we know you’re a crazy idiot as well as a liar. Most of us would “give a fuck if half the world kills the other half…”; crazy idiots like you don’t. > > And you’re a liar, of course, making shit up about me and not backing it up. Perhaps you could respond to what I actually posted, rather than whatever this is? You seem rather confused, claiming that his fiance saying there was no threat proves anything, despite her not being there at the time of the shooting. You clearly haven’t actually looked into what happened, what the evidence actually is. You should probably do that before you say more stupid things like that. Let’s just test this. How many people were in each car at the time of the shooting? If you look it up, was it what you thought? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=621) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=623)