# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 629
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12562 "2018-01-18T14:10:47Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Mentioned in SRIotD, the governor of New Mexico want to [protect the state’s fuzz](https://www.abqjournal.com/1117026/gov-wants-to-grant-immunity-to-police.html) from their victims. Wow, that’s a horrible idea. Exactly opposite of what “we the people” should demand from our government. The armed government enforcers are supposed to be able to shoot people at will with no accountability? What a surprise that the governor is a former prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12563 "2018-01-18T14:23:58Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No? There is no such thing as citizen’s arrest anymore? During a recent shooting, people got in their truck and chased the shooter down. Was that illegal? Should those guys go to jail? What does “not allowed” mean in your sentence. It is illegal to do it? Unwise? Something else? > > I can hold someone attempting to break into my house at gunpoint. Isn’t that force? Citizens are not like police their powers differ. The power of citizen’s arrest is not even close to the police power. You are not allowed to use deadly force (and guns in my state are always considered deadly force) to prevent a crime or enforce a law unless it is required to prevent violence. You generally can’t try to detain someone for dealing drugs and then pull gun when the alleged drug dealer resists your attempt to arrest them. A cop can. So you can’t hold a prostitute at gunpoint because you think she’s prostituting herself in front of your house no matter how irritable the alleged prostitute gets, a cop can. Cops are allowed to detain you based on reasonable suspicion. A citizen also has to be pretty sure because they can be guilty of false imprisonment even if they have a reasonable basis to believe that a crime has occurred. You can use deadly force to arrest someone who is using deadly force (AKA a shooter). You can generally use deadly force to arrest anyone that breaks into your home rules are always frequently different for stuff you do in your own home. Storeowners have special arrest powers to prevent shoplifting. It is generally unwise to play armed citizen cop a la Zimmerman. The citizen’s gun is generally there to be used in self defense not to clean up the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12564 "2018-01-18T14:51:21Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > Translated: > > Likewise, I’ve made it clear that I’m using “nigger” in it’s normal meaning, to refer to a person with black skin. That you immediately assume that means I’m a racist asshole says more about you than me. > > Also, I see you ignored my request to explain the hypocrisy from you that I cited, just as I predicted. There is a pretty wide gap between “thug” and “nigger” Nigger is a hateful word that has a centuries long history linked to slavery, segregation, black oppression and racism. Terms like Welfare Queen are really just code words for black single mom on welfare who allegedly has children just to increase her welfare benefits. Despite the fact that most single moms on welfare are white, people think black. Thug is a term that CAN have some dog whistle characteristics but is in common use in other contexts so that it is not automatically a racist term, even when used to describe black men if those black men are violent criminals. If the term thug is being used to define rude black teenagers who like to annoy people with loud music, then its probably at least a little bit racist because you would probably not describe a rude white teenager who likes to annoy people with loud music a thug, you would just call them an asshole. This is especially true if you are trying to justify violence against the “thug” because no one would think its OK to shoot someone just for being an asshole but when a black man is an asshole then they’re a thug and shooting them becomes more understandable, you know… because they are a menace to society (while drinking their juice in the hood). So in this case, were the black men violent criminals? Were they criminals of any sort? Anything to indicate thuggery? Because i’ve got to be honest if Jordan Davis turns out to be a drug dealing gang member with a violent criminal background, etc. I think thug is a good word to describe him. If he’s a stupid 17 year old that turned u loud music to intentionally piss off some old white dude, then he’s just an asshole and using the term thug probably means you are inclined to see black people as thugs. Probably means you are more likely to convict them of stuff if you are on a jury. But it doesn’t mean you are the type of racist we saw marching in Charlottesville. Just the kind of racist you see every day. White people tend to see rebellious black teenage boys as threatening and rebellious white teenage boys as a pain in the ass. You see, its just a phase for white boys and its an immutable character treat for black boys. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12565 "2018-01-18T14:57:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You are not allowed to use deadly force (and guns in my state are always considered deadly force) to prevent a crime or enforce a law unless it is required to prevent violence So, I CAN actually use deadly force to prevent a crime or enforce a law? Are cops allowed to use deadly force to prevent all crime? Can a copy shoot a prostitute simply for prostituting? > [@](#): > > You generally can’t try to detain someone for dealing drugs and then pull gun when the alleged drug dealer resists your attempt to arrest them Generally? Is there a law against it? Or is it just not a good idea? Something else? > [@](#): > > Storeowners have special arrest powers to prevent shoplifting They do? Is that written in a law somewhere? I’d like to read that. > [@](#): > > It is generally unwise to play armed citizen cop a la Zimmerman. The citizen’s gun is generally there to be used in self defense not to clean up the neighborhood. Unwise or illegal? Or something else? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12566 "2018-01-18T15:04:08Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > That’s the whole point of this thread. We don’t know what percent of cops do these things and how often they do it. But, it appears to be much larger than we’ve been led to believe! Cops in several districts have had body CAMs for over a year now and the rate of police shootings has not changed much. How do you explain that? Is it possible that you are irrationally hysterical? > [@](#): > > We’ve been told for years (decades? ages?) that these things absolutely did not happen. That the police did not target certain people because of where they live or the color of their skin. That the police did not charge people for crimes they did not commit. That the police did not kill unarmed civilians. That the police did not misrepresent the facts on crime reports and in court testimony. Who told you that? I bet a white person told you that. I’ve known since childhood that police were much likelier to believe that a black person committed a crime than a white person. I’ve known about driving while black for a long long time. I’ve known for decades that police lie for each other an they lie on the stand. I’ve also know that these things are rare nowadays (except for the police lying for each other part, that’s still waay too common). It seems to me that this might be hitting you especially hard because is such a revelation to you that cops are humans and capable of bad shit. This shit has been going on for a long time but the fact of he matter is that when it comes to actually shooting people, cops do not shoot poor black people any more frequently than they shoot poor white people. They don’t shoot rich black people any more frequently than they shoot rich white people. At least not by enough o be statistically significant. > [@](#): > > And in case after case we are finding that they do do these things. I thought we were talking about police shootings. Cops have been profiling black men since as far back as I can remember. > [@](#): > > What percentage do you think is acceptable? And what percentage do you think we’ll finally learn is actually occurring? > > mc I think that as long as there is no statistically significant different between the shooting of blacks and whites after correcting for other factors like socioeconomic status, prior criminal history, drug usage and mental instability, we should be looking to other factors than race. I already know what is occurring, it seems like you are the one in the dark and falling victim to hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12567 "2018-01-18T15:10:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Storeowners have special arrest powers to prevent shoplifting. Not exactly, They have some very limited ability to detain a person for investigation, and that varies drastically by state. In no state would they have actual arrest powers. > [@](#): > > It is generally unwise to play armed citizen cop a la Zimmerman. The citizen’s gun is generally there to be used in self defense not to clean up the neighborhood. Seemed to work out well for him. > [@eschereal](#): > > Eric Garner was not shot to death. The woman in Texas who was detained _for no fucking reason_ died in a jail cell. Freddy Gray was given the old shake-and-bake. There was the young man who died in jail because they would not give him medication. These and others were neither armed nor shot, but they died from mistreatment by the police. And this is only what we see. And again and again, we see the police fabricating a story that makes them look justified. > > How deep does this go? Are we seeing basically all there is? We have solid evidence that the police routinely lie about what happened. For them, the idea of “innocent until proven guilty” seems a tad nonsensical when one sees the height and opacity of the blue wall. There is something dreadfully wrong with LE in the US, and it may not be fixable. Don’t forget fun incidents like [killing people in the shower](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/19/520743255/after-schizophrenic-inmate-dies-in-a-shower-florida-prosecutor-finds-no-wrongdoi). Boiled to death by prison guards, but no wrongdoing was found. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12568 "2018-01-18T15:16:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So, I CAN actually use deadly force to prevent a crime or enforce a law? Yes its called self defense (and defense of others). > [@](#): > > Are cops allowed to use deadly force to prevent all crime? Can a copy shoot a prostitute simply for prostituting? No, but if the violence escalates, they don’t have to back off. If a private citizen tries to arrest a prostitute and the prostitute forcibly resists, you can’t escalate force to try and subdue the prostitute. You generally cannot disturb the peace to forcibly detain someone who is not disturbing the peace. > [@](#): > > Generally? Is there a law against it? Or is it just not a good idea? Something else? State laws differ but this is mostly common law. You can’t initiate violence to arrest someone who is not being violent. You can engage in self defense or defense of others. You can do extra stuff in your home and place of business. > [@](#): > > They do? Is that written in a law somewhere? I’d like to read that. > **[Shopkeeper's privilege](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper%27s_privilege)** > > Shopkeeper's privilege is a law recognized in the United States under which a shopkeeper is allowed to detain a suspected shoplifter on store property for a reasonable period of time, so long as the shopkeeper has cause to believe that the person detained in fact committed, or attempted to commit, theft of store property. > The privilege to detain, although recognized in many jurisdictions, is not as broad as a police officer's privilege to arrest. If the shopkeepers exceed the bounds of this priv... > [@](#): > > Unwise or illegal? Or something else? Depends on the jurisdiction. I think its probably unwise in almost all cases and illegal in many places. The ability of a citizen to use deadly force in situations outside of self defense or defense of others is vanishingly small. Heck even the use of force is every limited. There are a few special situations like bounty hunters, tow truck drivers, some security guards but for average joes. Stick with self defense, you can get into a lot of trouble trying to junior mod your neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12569 "2018-01-18T15:20:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Cops in several districts have had body CAMs for over a year now and the rate of police shootings has not changed much. How do you explain that? Is it possible that you are irrationally hysterical? A year isn’t very long, especially to see such a potentially major change. Further, this isn’t just about police shootings – what about overall complaints? Beatings and other violence? How many black people report mistreatment by police this year as opposed to past years? I don’t know the answers to these questions, but without them it’s not possible to evaluate the impact of body cameras, and what this might tell us about how police have changed their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12570 "2018-01-18T15:23:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > State laws differ but this is mostly common law. You can’t initiate violence to arrest someone who is not being violent. You can engage in self defense or defense of others. You can do extra stuff in your home and place of business. But I’m not initiating violence. I’m simply trying to affect a citizen’s arrest of a person dealing drugs. Once I start doing that, the drug dealer pulled out a gun. HE initiated the violence. Once the gun is out, now I fear for my life. Now I can shoot him, right? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12571 "2018-01-18T15:37:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not exactly, They have some very limited ability to detain a person for investigation, and that varies drastically by state. In no state would they have actual arrest powers. They can arrest until the cops get there in most cases. They can even use non-deadly force. The real difference AFAICT is that they don’t get sued for false imprisonment if they acted reasonably but they are wrong. > [@](#): > > Seemed to work out well for him. In what way did he benefit? ISTM that he is pariah and has been punched, shot at and treated with disdain because a lot of people think he got away with murder. Its sort of like saying that killing Nicole Brown Simpson worked out well for OJ. I suppose he was able to sell the murder weapon for some money but I don’t think anyone would want to recreate his “success” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12572 "2018-01-18T15:44:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A year isn’t very long, especially to see such a potentially major change. Further, this isn’t just about police shootings – what about overall complaints? Beatings and other violence? How many black people report mistreatment by police this year as opposed to past years? I don’t know the answers to these questions, but without them it’s not possible to evaluate the impact of body cameras, and what this might tell us about how police have changed their behavior. The particular sub-discussion is about shooting not just cops being assholes. I think there is in fact a reduction in complaints against police but frankly the body cams have done much more to exonerate police from accusations levied against them than damned them for misconduct. BTW, why would it take years for differences to appear. For example, if DC police were involved in 200 shootings in the year before body cams and there were no incidents of unjustified shootings and then there were 200 shootings by police in the year after body cams and there were still no unjustified shootings, perhaps the correct conclusion is that unjustified shootings are rare. If this sort of pattern remains consistent with police departments across the country, then why wouldn’t that indicate that unjustified police shootings are rare as a general matter? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12573 "2018-01-18T15:51:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But I’m not initiating violence. I’m simply trying to affect a citizen’s arrest of a person dealing drugs. Once I start doing that, the drug dealer pulled out a gun. HE initiated the violence. Once the gun is out, now I fear for my life. Now I can shoot him, right? If you lay hands on the alleged drug dealer or threaten him in some way, how do we know he isn’t the one engaging in self defense against a George Zimmerman type, and he is just pulling his gun to warn you off? If you are just talking to the drug dealer without making threats and he pulls a gun on you then you can defend yourself. See how it get muddy and complicated when you try to play cop? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12574 "2018-01-18T16:06:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you lay hands on the alleged drug dealer or threaten him in some way, how do we know he isn’t the one engaging in self defense against a George Zimmerman type, and he is just pulling his gun to warn you off? > > If you are just talking to the drug dealer without making threats and he pulls a gun on you then you can defend yourself. > > See how it get muddy and complicated when you try to play cop? Is telling him “I’m affecting a citizens arrest, please accompany me to the police station” a threat? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12575 "2018-01-18T16:09:27Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The particular sub-discussion is about shooting not just cops being assholes. I think there is in fact a reduction in complaints against police but frankly the body cams have done much more to exonerate police from accusations levied against them than damned them for misconduct. > > BTW, why would it take years for differences to appear. > > For example, if DC police were involved in 200 shootings in the year before body cams and there were no incidents of unjustified shootings and then there were 200 shootings by police in the year after body cams and there were still no unjustified shootings, perhaps the correct conclusion is that unjustified shootings are rare. > > If this sort of pattern remains consistent with police departments across the country, then why wouldn’t that indicate that unjustified police shootings are rare as a general matter? Without knowing all these numbers (including when body cams were operating and when they weren’t), then this is just a series of guesses. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12576 "2018-01-18T17:33:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Is telling him “I’m affecting a citizens arrest, please accompany me to the police station” a threat? “ **e** ffecting” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12577 "2018-01-18T17:37:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “ **e** ffecting” I guessed. Don’t shoot me over it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12578 "2018-01-18T18:18:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They can arrest until the cops get there in most cases. They can even use non-deadly force. The real difference AFAICT is that they don’t get sued for false imprisonment if they acted reasonably but they are wrong. Very limited, and like I said, varies by state. > [@](#): > > In what way did he benefit? ISTM that he is pariah and has been punched, shot at and treated with disdain because a lot of people think he got away with murder. Its sort of like saying that killing Nicole Brown Simpson worked out well for OJ. He got to kill someone and get away with it. Some people are into that. > [@](#): > > I suppose he was able to sell the murder weapon for some money but I don’t think anyone would want to recreate his “success” Unless they are sociopaths who want to kill randomly, or individuals who want to kill particular people, or any of the many many other reasons why one person may find themselves wanting to kill another. He has demonstrated the path to doing so and getting to walk away from the legal liabilities of being the primary cuase of someone else’s death. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12579 "2018-01-18T19:17:25Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know how you think this is supposed to respond to the notion that getting home alive is some sort of new paradigm that is the result of “some “guru” who has gone around the country training departments” AFAICT getting their officers home alive has ALWAYS been the number one priority of police departments, I can’t think of many things that ever took precedence over that. Its not a recent phenomenon, police have waned to go home to their families as far back as I can remember. They have been showing dashcam videos of cops getting shot during training since as far back as I can remember. > > There is some evidence that there has been increased police killings as a result of a larger more active swat force but the incidence of regular beat cops killing civilians hasn’t really moved that much. In fact it dropped significantly over the decades. Someone was asking about where this more aggressive, combative _“bulletproof warrior cop”_ idea was coming from. I can’t be bothered to go back and look for it again. You go look. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12580 "2018-01-18T19:21:18Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > That’s the whole point of this thread. We don’t know what percent of cops do these things and how often they do it. But, it appears to be much larger than we’ve been led to believe! > > We’ve been told for years (decades? ages?) that these things absolutely did not happen. That the police did not target certain people because of where they live or the color of their skin. That the police did not charge people for crimes they did not commit. That the police did not kill unarmed civilians. That the police did not misrepresent the facts on crime reports and in court testimony. And in case after case we are finding that they do do these things. > > What percentage do you think is acceptable? And what percentage do you think we’ll finally learn is actually occurring? > > mc and THIS is why video evidence taken by _“civilians”_ has become so important and why many police hate it so much. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12581 "2018-01-18T20:14:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Is telling him “I’m affecting a citizens arrest, please accompany me to the police station” a threat? Probably not but you have no police power and he has no obligation to obey you. how are you going to “enforce the law”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=628) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=630)