# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 630
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12582 "2018-01-18T20:16:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Without knowing all these numbers (including when body cams were operating and when they weren’t), then this is just a series of guesses. Well there haven’t really been allegations of cops turning off their body cams. There is not an absence of evidence, there is evidence. But the evidence points to the fact that police shootings are probably overwhelmingly good shootings. To the point where the incidence of bad shootings are statistically insignificant, like more really rare events. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12583 "2018-01-18T20:18:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Probably not but you have no police power and he has no obligation to obey you. how are you going to “enforce the law”? If it’s no threat, and he pulls a gun because he thinks I CAN arrest him, then I can shoot him, right? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12584 "2018-01-18T20:22:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Very limited, and like I said, varies by state. True but they follow a general model. > [@](#): > > He got to kill someone and get away with it. Some people are into that. > Unless they are sociopaths who want to kill randomly, or individuals who want to kill particular people, or any of the many many other reasons why one person may find themselves wanting to kill another. > > He has demonstrated the path to doing so and getting to walk away from the legal liabilities of being the primary cuase of someone else’s death. I dunno, maybe but there are easier ways to get away with killing. Killing a kid in your own neighborhood at night is not how I would satisfy a psychopathic desire to kill someone. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12585 "2018-01-18T20:25:51Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Someone was asking about where this more aggressive, combative _“bulletproof warrior cop”_ idea was coming from. I can’t be bothered to go back and look for it again. You go look. You want me to look or something that may or may not be there? You’re the one that quoted something, you provide the cite. I was responding to a post that said that there is something new in policing whereby getting home alive has become the number one priority for policemen. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12586 "2018-01-18T20:27:03Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > and THIS is why video evidence taken by _“civilians”_ has become so important and why many police hate it so much. Did the same white dude that told mikecurtis also convince you of these obvious (to me) falsehoods? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12587 "2018-01-18T20:30:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If it’s no threat, and he pulls a gun because he thinks I CAN arrest him, then I can shoot him, right? So he’s already got a gun aimed at you an you are going to shoot him? 😕 Laws vary by state but regardless of the law, if someone I think is a drug dealer is pointing a gun at me, I would probably shoot him if I could and deal with the consequences later. Morally I think you can shoot him and I think most states probably would see that as self defense but maybe you live in some state with stupid laws. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12588 "2018-01-18T20:35:12Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I dunno, maybe but there are easier ways to get away with killing. Killing a kid in your own neighborhood at night is not how I would satisfy a psychopathic desire to kill someone. I’ve never had any desirs to kill anyone, but it seems that hiding the body and the crime and all that associated with it is a lot more work than just shooting them and then claiming self defense. Besides, IIRC, Zimmerman didn’t live in the neighborhood in which he shat Martin. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12589 "2018-01-18T20:42:30Z")
**Damuri Ajashi** please do not falsely represent what I do and do not know and by whom I was supposedly told things. mc ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12590 "2018-01-18T20:44:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So he’s already got a gun aimed at you an you are going to shoot him? 😕 > > Laws vary by state but regardless of the law, if someone I think is a drug dealer is pointing a gun at me, I would probably shoot him if I could and deal with the consequences later. > > Morally I think you can shoot him and I think most states probably would see that as self defense but maybe you live in some state with stupid laws. Great! I can draw my gun out really fast and shoot him, even if he already has a gun on me! I’m just that good. What if he just starts to REACH for his gun? Can I shoot him then? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12591 "2018-01-18T20:57:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well there haven’t really been allegations of cops turning off their body cams. There is not an absence of evidence, there is evidence. But the evidence points to the fact that police shootings are probably overwhelmingly good shootings. To the point where the incidence of bad shootings are statistically insignificant, like more really rare events. Baltimore: > **[Baltimore Cops Caught Turning Off Body Cameras Before ‘Finding’ Drugs](https://www.thedailybeast.com/baltimore-cops-turned-off-body-cameras-before-finding-drugs)** > > For the second time in two weeks, the city’s police department is accused of planting incriminating evidence. New Orleans: > **[Officer involved in Monday shooting had body cam turned off](https://www.fox8live.com/story/26283883/officer-involved-in-monday-shooting-had-body-cam-turned-off/)** > > An officer who was involved in a Monday shooting that left a man hospitalized turned off her body camera just before the incident. Minneapolis: > **[Questions over why Minnesota cops had body cameras off during shooting of...](https://www.foxnews.com/us/questions-over-why-minnesota-cops-had-body-cameras-off-during-shooting-of-australian-woman)** > > The Minneapolis police officers who arrived at Justine Damond’s home shortly before she was shot and killed on Saturday did not have their body cameras on -- in violation of department policy -- and the American Civil Liberties Union wants to know... Albuquerque: > **[A cop fires. A teen dies. Yet six police body cameras somehow miss what happens.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/a-cop-fires-a-teen-dies-yet-six-police-body-cameras-somehow-miss-what-happens/2017/03/20/c7d801a8-0824-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0_story.html?utm_term=.7d648df97640)** > > Cops nationwide now wear cameras. But is the new tech obscuring rather than illuminating some police shootings? Chicago: > **[A Chicago Police Officer's Body Camera Turned Off During a Fatal Shooting](https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/08/chicago-shooting/493997/)** > > A Chicago officer who shot an unarmed black man last week wore a camera that switched off during the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12592 "2018-01-18T21:03:46Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Albuquerque: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/a-cop-fires-a-teen-dies-yet-six-police-body-cameras-somehow-miss-what-happens/2017/03/20/c7d801a8-0824-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0\_story.html?utm\_term=.7d648df97640](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/a-cop-fires-a-teen-dies-yet-six-police-body-cameras-somehow-miss-what-happens/2017/03/20/c7d801a8-0824-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0_story.html?utm_term=.7d648df97640) In case **Damuri** didn’t click on the link: > [@](#): > > The mystery of how so many body cameras missed the incident deepened in November with the release of a sworn affidavit from a former Albuquerque police employee, Reynaldo Chavez, who was the custodian of public records, including video evidence, before being fired in 2015. _ **He said it was routine for officials to delete, alter or refuse to release footage because of “political calculations.** _” Emphasis mine. ‘Political Calculations’ means ‘we fucked up and don’t want anyone to know what\* really\* happened’. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12593 "2018-01-18T21:28:04Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Someone was asking about where this more aggressive, combative _“bulletproof warrior cop”_ idea was coming from. I can’t be bothered to go back and look for it again. You go look. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20730167&postcount=36286](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20730167&postcount=36286) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12594 "2018-01-18T21:33:00Z")
Or, perhaps, a disgruntled former employee of the city is blowing smoke in furtherance of a lawsuit. > [@](#): > > City Attorney Jessica Hernandez released this statement on Friday: > > “There is always more to the story when the City finds it necessary to fire an employee. That is true here, as well. " [Cite](http://krqe.com/2016/01/08/lawsuit-city-employee-told-to-hide-destroy-public-records/). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12595 "2018-01-18T22:21:32Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > New Orleans: > > [Officer involved in Monday shooting had body cam turned off](http://www.fox8live.com/story/26283883/officer-involved-in-monday-shooting-had-body-cam-turned-off) From the cite: > [@](#): > > The officer’s attorney countered that Lewis had turned her body camera off because her shift was about to end and she was on her way back to the Fourth District station when she initiated the traffic stop that led to the shooting. She says she ‘almost’ done with her shift so she turned the body cam off, but then did another traffic stop and ‘forgot’ to turn it back on. Sure. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12596 "2018-01-18T22:34:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Or, perhaps, a disgruntled former employee of the city is blowing smoke in furtherance of a lawsuit. [Cite](http://krqe.com/2016/01/08/lawsuit-city-employee-told-to-hide-destroy-public-records/). > > Regards, > Shodan You have any evidence to your claim? You quoted the city’s attorney’s statement, do you count that as evidence? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12597 "2018-01-18T22:36:56Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > From the cite: > > She says she ‘almost’ done with her shift so she turned the body cam off, but then did another traffic stop and ‘forgot’ to turn it back on. > > Sure. :rolleyes: Here’s an idea, attach the timeclock to the camera. If the camera’s not rolling, they aren’t getting paid. Not serious, but not entirely unserious either. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12598 "2018-01-19T14:40:59Z")
[Cop shoots 16 year old to death in a Columbus, OH courthouse on 1/17](https://twitter.com/SURJColumbusOH/status/954045167069167622). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12599 "2018-01-19T16:10:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Cop shoots 16 year old to death in a Columbus, OH courthouse on 1/17](https://twitter.com/SURJColumbusOH/status/954045167069167622). > [@"\[WCMH-TV](#): > > ([http://nbc4i.com/2018/01/18/slain-ohio-teen-grew-upset-when-deputy-threatened-arrest-attorney-says/amp/](http://nbc4i.com/2018/01/18/slain-ohio-teen-grew-upset-when-deputy-threatened-arrest-attorney-says/amp/))"]The deputy, who has not been identified, sustained bruises and cuts consistent with someone who’d been in a hand-to-hand confrontation, Keith Ferrell, executive vice president of the Fraternal Order of Police lodge that represents Franklin County deputies, said Thursday. “It sounds like the deputy had no choice.” Well, that makes it all ok. He had no choice. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12600 "2018-01-19T16:17:44Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Cop shoots 16 year old to death in a Columbus, OH courthouse on 1/17](https://twitter.com/SURJColumbusOH/status/954045167069167622). I can’t tell from your Twitter cite - is [this](http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/us/ohio-courthouse-shooting/index.html) the same case? If so, what is the controversy? His hearing on a gun charge is almost over, he and his family attack a deputy in the courthouse, and he gets shot and dies. Yes, it’s bad and he was 16, but come on now. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12601 "2018-01-19T17:19:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You have any evidence to your claim? That he is a former employee is in the cite. That he is filing a law suit is also in the cite. That he is disgruntled is what we call an “inference” - few people who are gruntled over a discharge file lawsuits. > [@](#): > > You quoted the city’s attorney’s statement, do you count that as evidence? Evidence that he might, perhaps, be motivated by something other than a laudable commitment to truth, justice, and the American way? Yes. You do understand the meaning of the word “perhaps”, do you not? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=629) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=631)