# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 635
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12682 "2018-02-03T15:30:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > . . . > Seriously, how is this even remotely controversial? Woman shoots at police, gets shot. No issues of wrong address or anything like that. From the article cited: > [@](#): > > The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigations will look into whether there was any wrongdoing on the part of the officers. The agency may well conclude that the officers had cause to shoot Townsend, since she fired a weapon at them. But where is the logic in conducting the raid at night, when no one can see anything, and shouting “put the fucking gun down” at a confused, half-asleep old woman? Police put her in a position where she might have reasonably thought she was fighting for her life against robbers, giving her no choice but to fire and them with no choice but to retaliate with deadly force—all to bust her son for selling some weed. The controversy is that the cops will refuse to recognize any mistakes on their part. The cops failed. They failed to keep themselves safe, they failed to keep the suspect safe, and they failed to keep the victim safe. But all they, and you, have to say about it is > [@](#): > > The only person who acted wrongly was the woman who shot and injured the police. mc ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12683 "2018-02-03T16:10:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You know what would also make things safer for cops? Idiots like you not defending people shooting cops who are doing their job. Not making no-knock night raids to bust someone for selling weed would make the cops safer. If she had had a real gun, then there would be two dead cops along with her. They are fortunate that the person that they killed posed no threat to them whatsoever. They put themselves into a position where, had there been an actual threat, they would have been putting themselves into mortal danger. Fortunately for the cops, the person that they killed posed them no threat, so the only person who was killed was someone who was attempting to protect her home from armed intruders. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12684 "2018-02-03T16:56:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No it isn’t. It may be controversial that weed hasn’t yet been legalised, but it’s not controversial that the police should enforce the law. No one said it was controversial to enforce the law; that’s a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12685 "2018-02-03T16:59:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Well, you are factually wrong there, as usual. They had a warrant to search the house, and to do so, they literally _had_ to be in the house. Wait… they did? Cite? The article linked says nothing about a search warrant. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12686 "2018-02-03T17:33:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Wait… they did? Cite? The article linked says nothing about a search warrant. The article actually does mention a warrant, and there is a link in the first or second paragraph that mentions a warrant. And the linked article shows a picture of the guy they arrested. He was a Negro, so they had to do it at night, because those people are nocturnal. Now, if we can stop engaging the troll, this thread will be much easier to follow. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12687 "2018-02-03T18:56:26Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Wait… they did? Cite? The article linked says nothing about a search warrant. > [@](#): > > Officers knocked on the door and said, “police department, search warrant.” So a warrant, and they knocked. Unless the cops were lying, or the artcle is lying, or some other conspiracy theory like the usual ones here to claim that cops are going out fo their way to kill black people. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12688 "2018-02-03T19:06:19Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > The cops are the ones who go to the judge to get the fucking warrant you fucking dipshit. They don’t need a warrant to arrest a guy dealing weed. It is a waste of resources and places EVERYONE at risk. Save the raid for meth labs, human trafficking, weapons stashes. And if it wasn’t a situation where a warrant was, well, warranted, the judge wouldn’t have issued it, dipshit. The only thing that put the cops’ lives at risk was the old woman shooting at them, and you are defending her. You are literally defending shooting cops because you disagree with drug laws. That’s fucking _insane_. You are, however, right about the prohibition of weed being a huge waste of resources, and convicting people for using it a huge waste of lives. I don’t accept that it’s the job of the police to choose which laws to enforce, though - that could very easily lead to an exacerbation of the problems being discussed in this thread. Cops could legitimately claim they don’t have to investigate other cops, or that they could ignore crime in certain areas. Whilst it’s obviously impossible to investigate every single report or potential crime fully, it should not be the job of ordinary cops to decide what the priorities are, it should be a political decision. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12689 "2018-02-03T19:07:47Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > To **Shodan** , **Steophan** and the rest: do you really think this is how an officer of the peace should talk? is this really how you want your police to behave? > > mc > [@eschereal](#): > > Now, if we can stop engaging the troll, this thread will be much easier to follow. Maybe request your fellow posters not to solicit my opinion if you don’t want me to post in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12690 "2018-02-03T19:22:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > … I don’t accept that it’s the job of the police to choose which laws to enforce, though - that could very easily lead to an exacerbation of the problems being discussed in this thread.… But the police **do** decide what laws to enforce, when, and upon whom, you fucking moron. That is what this whole thread is about, and why many of us perceive you as a dipshit asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12691 "2018-02-03T19:23:45Z")
Seriously, even the police will tell you that’s part of their job. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12692 "2018-02-03T19:26:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So a warrant, and they knocked. Ah, okay; not sure how I missed that when reading the article. I saw “warrant” but not “search warrant”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12693 "2018-02-03T19:29:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Whilst it’s obviously impossible to investigate every single report or potential crime fully, it should not be the job of ordinary cops to decide what the priorities are, it should be a political decision. Well that’s just dumb as hell. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12694 "2018-02-03T22:38:23Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > According to the shooter, the lady pointed the gun at him twice. The real question that needs to be asked is why was there a police raid over some marijuana? Words don’t mean much anymore. TOO often, any videos that turn up show the words to be a deliberate lie, and what we see only scratches the surface. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12695 "2018-02-07T08:24:47Z")
Tennessee sheriff caught on tape saying ‘I love this shit’ after ordering suspect’s killing. > **[Sheriff's Disturbing Comments Caught On Body Cam](https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/sheriff-s-disturbing-comments-caught-on-body-cam)** > > A sheriff's comments caught on a body camera raise questions about a deputy's use of deadly force. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12696 "2018-02-07T13:09:57Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Tennessee sheriff caught on tape saying ‘I love this shit’ after ordering suspect’s killing. > [https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/sheriff-s-disturbing-comments-caught-on-body-cam](https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/sheriff-s-disturbing-comments-caught-on-body-cam) > [@Asshole Sheriff](#): > > Ain’t gonna tear up my cars. Mel Brooks has this covered: > [@Taggart](#): > > [Dang near lost a $400 hand car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w36z7XnwOM) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12697 "2018-02-07T14:02:02Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > But the police **do** decide what laws to enforce, when, and upon whom, you fucking moron. That is what this whole thread is about, and why many of us perceive you as a dipshit asshole. Precisely. There was [a great scene in The Wire](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YrWiwUM3FA)that sort of addressed this notion without addressing it directly. Here’s how I make sense of it : the city passed a well-meaning (or at least somewhat justified) ordinance against public drunkeness ; but the law itself is retarded and goes at the problem in a wrong way, or at least the side effects of the law as written would cause a lot more social upheaval than the streets drunks ever would. So the “reasonable drunks” circumvent the letter of the law via a stupid loophole, and the cops let them because that in turn on one hand lets them focus their resources on crimes that actually matter and affect people while at the same time keeping the “public alcohol” ordinance in their toolkit to deal with the actual disruptive drunks who may or may not have plagued the city at the time that ordinance was drafted. And that’s a determination every fucking cop makes every fucking minute of every blessed day, really ; on the simple basis that their body can only be in one place at one time. So do you go after the speedster, or the guy who tossed his cigarette stub onto the sidewalk, or the jaywalker, or the guy who’s being a serial nigger ? OK, so that last one was ha-ha-only-serious-only-hopefully-ha-ha. But the point is : every individual cop does decide which laws get enforced and which don’t at any given time. Sometimes they choose based on pondered assesments, sometimes they decide because it’s too close to donut break to be bothered. And that’s physically unavoidable, **Steophan**. And it CAN’T be a political decision, because laws and lawmakers are good enough (though most of them are retardedly written and morons respectively) but none can be granular enough to account for the context and circumstances of even common everyday occurrences. And that’s with modern law codes already being overly stuffy. That’s why there’s judges rather than Justice Algorithms, too. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12698 "2018-02-07T14:34:29Z")
So the cops should have refused to execute the warrant, because you think the laws are stupid? Can you see any drawbacks to that approach? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12699 "2018-02-07T15:01:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So the cops should have refused to execute the warrant, because you think the laws are stupid? > > Can you see any drawbacks to that approach? > > Regards, > Shodan Did I comment on the specifics of the case ? Shit, I missed that, I really should quit drinking… No, I was merely commenting on **Steophan** ’s post which is a self-contradiction, really. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12700 "2018-02-07T15:07:39Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Tennessee sheriff caught on tape saying ‘I love this shit’ after ordering suspect’s killing. > [https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/sheriff-s-disturbing-comments-caught-on-body-cam](https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/sheriff-s-disturbing-comments-caught-on-body-cam) This is one of the most egregious and awful things posted in this thread, and the ddamned thread is devoted to cataloging egregious and awful acts. :mad:☹ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12701 "2018-02-07T15:12:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So the cops should have refused to execute the warrant, because you think the laws are stupid? > > Can you see any drawbacks to that approach? > > Regards, > Shodan If cops start refusing to execute no-knock warrants to bust small time weed dealers, then they will eventually stop issuing them. Keep in mind, this isn’t just about public safety, this is about what really matters to you, cop safety. Not only will this reduce the number of homeowners that end up getting caught up and killed in raids on their houses, it will reduce the number of times that cops are put into a dangerous position. I know that you don’t give a shit about public safety, but won’t you at least think about the police officers that don’t get to make it back home because they got killed over trying to bust some teenager for selling a dimebag to a friend? Only drawback I see to that is that there is a little less traffic in this thread, a sacrifice I am willing to make. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=634) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=636)