# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 636
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12702 "2018-02-07T15:15:07Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This is one of the most egregious and awful things posted in this thread, and the ddamned thread is devoted to cataloging egregious and awful acts. > > :mad:☹ I am sure we will hear soon enough that this is perfectly acceptable police behavior, and that the only terrible thing is that it was recorded and made public. That’s the egregious and awful act. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12703 "2018-02-07T17:32:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If cops start refusing to execute no-knock warrants to bust small time weed dealers, then they will eventually stop issuing them. Actually, a more likely outcome if cops decide they aren’t going to execute warrants because they don’t like the laws is that they get fired and we get some new cops who will do their job. > [@](#): > > Keep in mind, this isn’t just about public safety, this is about what really matters to you, cop safety. Not only will this reduce the number of homeowners that end up getting caught up and killed in raids on their houses, it will reduce the number of times that cops are put into a dangerous position. > > I know that you don’t give a shit about public safety, but won’t you at least think about the police officers that don’t get to make it back home because they got killed over trying to bust some teenager for selling a dimebag to a friend? > > Only drawback I see to that is that there is a little less traffic in this thread, a sacrifice I am willing to make. This is stupid even for you, and that’s saying something. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12704 "2018-02-07T17:50:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, a more likely outcome if cops decide they aren’t going to execute warrants because they don’t like the laws is that they get fired and we get some new cops who will do their job. You are probably correct. Cops don’t get fired for planting evidence, or for beating people, or even for killing them. But they would get fired because they refuse to do something that puts them in danger, puts the public in danger, and lowers the public’s opinion of the police. We are building the police state of your dreams. > [@](#): > > This is stupid even for you, and that’s saying something. So, you are saying that you don’t care about police safety? Why do you think it is stupid to care about the well being of cops? That you want them to be put into dangerous positions is pretty disgusting. I suppose I must have been wrong to think that the safety of our friends in blue was a concern to you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12705 "2018-02-07T18:12:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You are probably correct. Cops don’t get fired for planting evidence, or for beating people, or even for killing them. Yes, I am correct. But this is really stupid - cops do, in fact, get fired for misconduct, and several instances have been provided in this thread. > [@](#): > > But they would get fired because they refuse to do something that puts them in danger, puts the public in danger, and lowers the public’s opinion of the police. > > We are building the police state of your dreams. You need, if possible, to say things that are less idiotic. Which is more likely to lead to a police state - police obeying the authority of judges and legislators, or police picking and choosing which warrants they will honor and which they will ignore? > [@](#): > > Why do you think it is stupid to care about the well being of cops? I don’t think it is stupid to care about the well being of cops. It’s stupid to post as you do. I guess it wasn’t possible. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12706 "2018-02-07T18:23:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, I am correct. But this is really stupid - cops do, in fact, get fired for misconduct, and several instances have been provided in this thread. And many instances have been provided in this thread of cops not getting fired after misconduct. So my point stands just fine. > [@](#): > > You need, if possible, to say things that are less idiotic. Which is more likely to lead to a police state - police obeying the authority of judges and legislators, or police picking and choosing which warrants they will honor and which they will ignore? Do you actually think that those are the only options? Excluded middle fallacious arguments are for those who know that they have no actual credible argument to stand on. Well, it is also a favorite technique used by trolls. > [@](#): > > I don’t think it is stupid to care about the well being of cops. It’s stupid to post as you do. Well, you are the one who wants them to go into dangerous situations for no purpose other than to put the public into danger and to decrease the public’s trust in them. We’ll just let that stand on its own to show your lie, troll. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12707 "2018-02-07T18:54:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, I am correct. But this is really stupid - cops do, in fact, get fired for misconduct, and several instances have been provided in this thread. > > Regards, > Shodan And often, as cited earlier in this thread, they are rehired by that same department. Well, more they are forced by the union to reinstate rather than rehire. But the effect is the same. Others are simply hired by other departments. They call them ‘gypsy’ cops. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12708 "2018-02-07T19:36:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If cops start refusing to execute no-knock warrants to bust small time weed dealers, then they will eventually stop issuing them. The police are the ones who obtain the warrants in the first place. It is a departmental decision, that situation X calls for a breach of Subject Y’s privacy. The chief, or whoever, grabs a bunch of uniforms and sends them out on a raid. Which is to say, the local departmental administration is largely responsible for the terrible outcome in the Bartlesville encounter. The uniforms were, ahem, just following orders. They fucked up, but the prioritization and timing of the raid – most of the problem – was not their fault. Higher-ups in the department deserve some amount of pillorying. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12709 "2018-02-07T19:49:11Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The police are the ones who obtain the warrants in the first place. It is a departmental decision, that situation X calls for a breach of Subject Y’s privacy. The chief, or whoever, grabs a bunch of uniforms and sends them out on a raid. > > Which is to say, the local departmental administration is largely responsible for the terrible outcome in the Bartlesville encounter. The uniforms were, ahem, just following orders. They fucked up, but the prioritization and timing of the raid – most of the problem – was not their fault. Higher-ups in the department deserve some amount of pillorying. That’s what I am saying. The lower level cops should be holding their superiors to account. They should question being sent into dangerous circumstances where they may end up having to kill someone else or risk their lives, when the situation can be resolved far more peacefully, assuming that it is a situation that really needs to be resolved at all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12710 "2018-02-07T20:19:04Z")
So, cops, who routinely plant evidence, assault, beat, and shoot people, should be the ones who decide what warrants to serve and what ones to ignore. Oooookay then. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12711 "2018-02-07T20:27:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, cops, who routinely plant evidence, assault, beat, and shoot people, should be the ones who decide what warrants to serve and what ones to ignore. Oooookay then. > > Regards, > Shodan Man, you are pretty harsh on cops there. Why you so hate our friends in blue? No wonder you want them to have to unnecessarily go into situations where they may get themselves injured or killed. My thoughts were more along the lines of them requesting to their superiors, that, rather than bust in the door and invade the house of some teenager who sold a dime bag at night, maybe instead, just go knock on the door during the day, talk to him and issue the appropriate citation and court summons. But you go ahead and live among your own kind, in your world of an excluded middle, the land of trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12712 "2018-02-07T20:43:24Z")
A big part of the solution is for the police to be fully responsible to independent civilian oversight. I have some hope that you might advance in this direction. An even bigger part of the solution is to get serious about gun control so that the police will not be in as much risk so much of the time. Unfortunately, you are not capable of this, so even if you improve vis a vis civilian oversight, your police caused death rates will still be horrendous when compared with the first world. The biggest part is to deal with your racism. Out of racism comes poverty, out of poverty comes crime, out of crime comes violence and death. Although you have made some steps forward vis a vis racism, you have such a long way to go that it is a generational problem that will not be solved any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12713 "2018-02-07T20:55:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … rather than bust in the door and invade the house of some teenager who sold a dime bag at night, maybe instead, just go knock on the door during the day … Well, in the Bartlesville incident, the suspect was several decades beyond being a teenager. They shot his mother, who was 72. There are probably cases of teenagers who have parents in their 70s, but mostly not so much. But the department leadership deserves some blame here. They got a warrant for something that seems very trivial and decided to execute it with the worst possible timing. The officers could have chosen to hold off or beg off, but then when their performance reviews come up, they might be looking at an insubordination strike on their records. Hanging an officer for doing something ill-advised should look also at who put that officer in the bad situation. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12714 "2018-02-07T20:57:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So, cops, who routinely plant evidence, assault, beat, and shoot people, should be the ones who decide what warrants to serve and what ones to ignore. Oooookay then. Having better quality officers would be preferable, but possibly more than most PDs can afford. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12715 "2018-02-07T20:57:46Z")
…while I agree that “no-knock warrants” are in most cases stupid, pointless, and dangerous, expecting police to all of a sudden decide to stop executing the warrants because “its the right thing to do” is kinda ridiculous. There are 18,000 police departments in America. Its just not going to happen. > [@Muffin](#): > > A big part of the solution is for the police to be fully responsible to independent civilian oversight. This is a much more practical approach to the issue. But America being America, without overwhelming support from the public, this is unlikely to happen in most jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12716 "2018-02-08T00:42:44Z")
[First round of closing arguments today in Baltimore](https://apnews.com/80b569bdc02243c4b14578b613de4d70/Closing-arguments-begin-in-Baltimore-police-corruption-trial). > [@](#): > > Federal prosecutors and a defense team for one of two Baltimore detectives fighting racketeering and robbery charges made their closing arguments Wednesday as a trial winds down in one of the worst U.S. police corruption scandals in recent memory. > > The high-profile case is not in the hands of a jury quite yet. Defense attorneys for a second detective who has pleaded not guilty will deliver their final arguments Thursday, and government prosecutors are set for a rebuttal. The article has a decent overview of the whole thing for those that haven’t been following along. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12717 "2018-02-09T22:47:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I am sure we will hear soon enough that this is perfectly acceptable police behavior, and that the only terrible thing is that it was recorded and made public. That’s the egregious and awful act. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12718 "2018-02-13T15:10:07Z")
[Guilty and guilty](https://apnews.com/bb3b2506279e42cc902d49612b314c36/Baltimore-officers-guilty-in-corruption-saga-short-on-heroes): > [@](#): > > The result: A jury convicted Detectives Daniel Hersl and Marcus Taylor of robbery, racketeering, and conspiracy on Monday evening, and they face up to 20 years on each count. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12719 "2018-02-13T16:43:45Z")
Don’t be ridiculous. That didn’t happen - police are never punished for wrong doing. I read it on the Internet. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12720 "2018-02-13T16:55:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Don’t be ridiculous. That didn’t happen - police are never punished for wrong doing. I read it on the Internet. > > Regards, > Shodan Not as often as they commit wrongdoing, to be sure, but from time to time, despite the police being the ones to investigate, and their friends the ones to prosecute, occasionally, when they have at least a decade of criminal behavior of invading homes, staging crime scenes, acting as armed drug dealers, running interference on drug trafficking rings, and even defrauding of their own department, they end up actually facing justice. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12721 "2018-02-13T17:32:33Z")
No, police are never charged, always acquitted, and if fired, are quickly rehired by the same or another department. You could look it up. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=635) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=637)