# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 642
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12822 "2018-03-22T18:18:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t think you can make that statement absolutely. Surely you can think of situations in which someone standing in his own back yard is a threat.I must not be understanding you - putting yourself into harm’s way is part of a cop’s job. > > Regards, > Shodan Ohmyghod! What if he had thrown that cell phone at the police with the intent of having the battery blow up in their faces, so that he could grab their guns and execute them!! **Shodan** , you are a fucking putz. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12823 "2018-03-22T19:04:34Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I’m not outraged at the 20 times. That’s a single magazine for each police officer. If they’re going to shoot at all, shooting through an entire magazine is not inappropriate. > > But that’s where the outrage does come. The decision to fire in the first place should never have been made. > > Actually, I might be angrier if it turned out they each only fired a couple times. That would compound their incompetence with even more incompetence and/or a potential indication they did not consider themselves under a sufficiently serious threat to merit the use of deadly force. The video has the cops, after shooting the guy twenty times, yelling “Put your hands up!” ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12824 "2018-03-22T19:11:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t think you can make that statement absolutely. Surely you can think of situations in which someone standing in his own back yard is a threat. Except we’re not talking hypotheticals. We’re talking about Stephon Clark, who’s cell phone was confused for a gun (or crowbar, depending on the account). I can hypothesize that you’re an authoritarian-loving murderer-apologist…never mind, that’s not hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12825 "2018-03-22T19:42:54Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > If the only response to being in harm’s way is to shoot your way out of it, then it should not be part of anyone’s job. I am not sure what you mean. > [@](#): > > and, besides, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, a cop is under no obligation to be in harm’s way. Actually, yes it is. Remember the Parkland shooting? Remember how the school resource officer didn’t put himself in harm’s way? Do you agree that he acted appropriately? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12826 "2018-03-22T19:45:16Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Except we’re not talking hypotheticals. We’re talking about Stephon Clark, who’s cell phone was confused for a gun (or crowbar, depending on the account). Yes, I know. Do you think that the fact that he was standing in the back yard made it impossible that he was reaching into his pocket for a gun? I really hope not, because that would be idiotic. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12827 "2018-03-22T19:47:01Z")
Two extremes that don’t really compare. The security guard guy at Parkland should have put himself in harms way and fired back at the shooter because there was absolutely no doubt of the threat. A guy standing in his back yard with his phone, which, if you squint, might look like a gun, is no fucking way a threat. So those cops shouldn’t have just assumed they already were in harms way and killed the guy. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12828 "2018-03-22T19:53:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am not sure what you mean. Actually, yes it is. > > Remember the Parkland shooting? Remember how the school resource officer didn’t put himself in harm’s way? Do you agree that he acted appropriately? > > Regards, > Shodan Given that recent history has shown that the police have a habit of preferring to shoot unarmed [del]suspects[/del] victims, one definition of “acted appropriately” is difficult to pin down. And besides, the Parkland shooter was white, so he got a pass. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12829 "2018-03-22T20:00:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am not sure what you mean. Actually, yes it is. > > Remember the Parkland shooting? Remember how the school resource officer didn’t put himself in harm’s way? Do you agree that he acted appropriately? > > Regards, > Shodan Well, at least he didn’t shoot anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12830 "2018-03-22T20:09:25Z")
I guess there weren’t any black guys laying on their back begging “Don’t shoot me” around. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12831 "2018-03-22T20:21:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, I know. Do you think that the fact that he was standing in the back yard made it impossible that he was reaching into his pocket for a gun? > > I really hope not, because that would be idiotic. > > Regards, > Shodan a man standing in his own back yard, _even with a gun clearly visible_, IS NOT A THREAT! In fact, as you yourself have pointed out on more than one occasion, he has a Constitutionally protected right to do so. A man standing in his own back yard could potentially become a threat, and it is for this reason that a cop (or anyone) confronting a man in his own backyard should take caution so as not to put themselves in harm’s way. This is basic police training - they are taught than even the most mundane situation could pose a possible threat, and this particular event was not mundane and so should have required extra caution. If you put yourself in such a situation where you have no time to properly assess whether the man’s actions are indeed a threat, then you have failed to follow basic training. Or the training has failed to properly prepare you. putting yourself in a situation where you have **no choice** but to interpret someone’s actions as threat IS NOT ACCEPTABLE! mc ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12832 "2018-03-22T20:29:19Z")
There are very few (or no) consequences for cops for mistaking a cell phone or other mundane non-weapon for a weapon and then shooting someone. Maybe if the consequences were significant, they wouldn’t make that mistake as often as they do. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12833 "2018-03-22T21:13:59Z")
Killing black people is financially rewarding. [http://www.wlwt.com/article/uc-will-pay-ray-tensing-nearly-350-000-in-back-pay-legal-fees/19565438](http://www.wlwt.com/article/uc-will-pay-ray-tensing-nearly-350-000-in-back-pay-legal-fees/19565438) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12834 "2018-03-23T00:06:21Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > This reminds me of the most egregious defense in court I ever read: “It was an accidental shooting.” > > The victim had more than 2 clips of bullets in his body :smack: > > The guy should’ve been disbarred on the spot. Which reminds me of one of the greatest episodes of my role playing days: For some reason, the team rogue decide to attack one of the warriors. When the warrior drew his sword to retaliate, the rogue said: “It was an accident! I was cleaning my sling, and it went off!” ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12835 "2018-03-23T03:09:42Z")
Protesters in Sacramento went out to the streets and actually walked on the freeway during rush hour. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12836 "2018-03-23T06:57:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, I know. Do you think that the fact that he was standing in the back yard made it impossible that he was reaching into his pocket for a gun? > > I really hope not, because that would be idiotic. > > Regards, > Shodan “He came up, and he kind of approached us, hands out, and then fell down” You tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12837 "2018-03-23T13:43:42Z")
Which way did he fall? If it was toward the police, he might have been falling in a threatening manner. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12838 "2018-03-23T16:53:51Z")
[Some decent news](https://apnews.com/dc80b4753f2343d191a7230db89dcae8/Washington-teen-pulled-from-bike-by-officer-awarded-$500K), IMO: > [@](#): > > A Washington state teenager who was pulled from her bicycle in a mall parking lot four years ago and shocked with a stun gun by an off-duty officer working security has been awarded $500,000 in federal court. > > The jury issued the award to Monique Tillman on Thursday after she sued Officer Jared Williams and the city of Tacoma over the May 2014 encounter caught on surveillance video. Her brother Eric Branch was awarded $50,000. > > Attorney Rick Friedman told The News Tribune that it was important for Tillman and Branch to “stand up for their civil rights and not take this lying down.” > [@](#): > > City spokeswoman Maria Lee said in a statement that the verdict was disappointing and that Tacoma’s attorneys are reviewing the case before deciding whether to pursue an appeal. > > Tacoma police spokeswoman Loretta Cool said Williams remains employed with the department. That last sentence is what keeps me from characterizing this as good news. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12839 "2018-03-23T17:01:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Some decent news](https://apnews.com/dc80b4753f2343d191a7230db89dcae8/Washington-teen-pulled-from-bike-by-officer-awarded-$500K), IMO:That last sentence is what keeps me from characterizing this as good news. [Here’s a video](http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article206484374.html)of the confrontation. Without the video, I expect no one would know or care. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12840 "2018-03-23T18:08:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > [Here’s a video](http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article206484374.html)of the confrontation. Without the video, I expect no one would know or care. They’d care. They’d take the cops word for it that she deserved the bruises, and use his charging of her with assaulting an officer as proof that cops need to be more violent. Keep in mind, any shooting not caught on video is ruled as justified, as that is what the officer writes in his report. That allows friends like Shodan to claim that most are justified, so what do we need cameras for? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12841 "2018-03-23T18:50:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Which way did he fall? If it was toward the police, he might have been falling in a threatening manner. “He spurted blood at us in an aggressive manner!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=641) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=643)