# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 646
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12902 "2018-03-28T20:31:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I will assume from the attempts to talk about other cases that my point has been carried about this case. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m fairly certain that references to other cases serve as rebuttals to things you are asserting as a result of this case. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12903 "2018-03-28T20:33:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I will assume from the attempts to talk about other cases that my point has been carried about this case. It must be depressing going through life making absolutely wrong assumptions day after day after day…but maybe _my_ assumption is wrong and you actually thrive on being constantly disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12904 "2018-03-28T20:34:19Z")
You’re mistaken. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12905 "2018-03-28T20:46:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re mistaken. > > Regards, > Shodan So it’s the latter? In it’s own way that is even more worse…but I try not to think less of those who need to be disappointed to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12906 "2018-03-28T21:11:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I will assume from the attempts to talk about other cases that my point has been carried about this case. > > Regards, > Shodan Nah, we just moved on from your stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12907 "2018-03-28T21:28:12Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Nah, we just moved on from your stupidity. He thinks that when people stop responding to him it’s because they agree with him? What does he think when they all leave the room-That they are having a parade in his honor? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12908 "2018-03-28T21:43:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let me get this straight: If I make a mistake, I die, and if _they_ make a mistake, I die? Yes. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > If the threat is just apparent, then it isn’t a threat yet. Is it _really_ asking too much of our police to get better at telling the difference between the two? Yes. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > You can use that to justify shooting anyone. They could have been a threat, they could have a gun, they could have a knife, they might try to run. At the moment when the police first encounter someone, how do they determine that there is or is not a real threat? Whether or not it’s a real threat is utterly irrelevant as to whether the shooting is legally or morally justified. > [@Shodan](#): > > I will assume from the attempts to talk about other cases that my point has been carried about this case. > > Regards, > Shodan Happens a lot here, but then most people here don’t believe that the police have a right to get home to their families after work. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12909 "2018-03-28T22:02:50Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Happens a lot here, but then most people here don’t believe that the police have a right to get home to their families after work. It seems that at least two persons here think that only the police have a right to get home alive. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12910 "2018-03-28T22:32:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > If the threat is just apparent, then it isn’t a threat yet. Is it _really_ asking too much of our police to get better at telling the difference between the two? > > Yes. Man. I would call you a loathsome piece of shit, but I would rather not offend fecal matter that way. At least it has _some_ value. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12911 "2018-03-28T22:41:49Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Happens a lot here, but then most people here don’t believe that the police have a right to get home to their families after work. The police have no more a right to that than anybody else has. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12912 "2018-03-28T22:48:41Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > The police have no more a right to that than anybody else has. That’s the obvious observation and it fucking boggles my mind anyone would think otherwise. Just disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12913 "2018-03-29T00:59:13Z")
Yeah, that’s rough. “Cops should shoot a guy 20 times when they are a little bit scared, so they can go home to their families” I’m pretty sure that military ROE doesn’t even allow that in a friggin’ war zone. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12914 "2018-03-29T01:54:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Happens a lot here, but then most people here don’t believe that the police have a right to get home to their families after work. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > The police have no more a right to that than anybody else has. Unfortunately the person at home was black rather than a boy in blue. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12915 "2018-03-29T09:43:57Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > The police have no more a right to that than anybody else has. No less, either, despite what many people here think. We require the police to confront dangerous people, which is why they are given plenty of leeway to defend themselves from perceived threats. To make it clear, _again_, it’s utterly irrelevant whether there’s a real threat. What matters is if it’s reasonable to perceive a threat in the circumstances, often in an instant. Vanishingly few of the cases in this thread have been situations where it’s clear that there was no reason to see a threat, and in many of those cases the cops involved have been punished appropriately. Take, for example, someone who has been seen smashing windows, who then moves towards the cops with an unidentified object in his hand, ignoring police commands. Anyone who claims that it’s unreasonable to see them as a serious threat isa liar or an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12916 "2018-03-29T10:21:33Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Take, for example, someone who has been seen smashing windows, who then moves towards the cops with an unidentified object in his hand, ignoring police commands. By what evidence do you claim that this occurred? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12917 "2018-03-29T11:41:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Take, for example, someone who has been seen smashing windows, who then moves towards the cops with an unidentified object in his hand, ignoring police commands. Anyone who claims that it’s unreasonable to see them as a serious threat isa liar or an idiot. In addition to what **iiandyiiii** asked: is the guy deaf? Does he speak English? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12918 "2018-03-29T13:48:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > By what evidence do you claim that this occurred? Why, the cop said it happened like that. Therefore, it 100% happened exactly like that. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12919 "2018-03-29T14:08:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Why, the cop said it happened like that. Therefore, it 100% happened exactly like that. That seems to be the gospel from the LEO standpoint, and will probably remain so. Unfortunately, the videos I found online don’t shed any light. The overhead one from the helicopter doesn’t show the suspect at the time of the shooting, and I can’t tell much of anything from the cops’ video. So, it seems impossible to know whether the suspect was advancing toward the cops, had anything in his hand or made any threatening movements. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12920 "2018-03-29T14:10:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > . . .To make it clear, _again_, it’s utterly irrelevant whether there’s a real threat. What matters is if it’s reasonable to perceive a threat in the circumstances, often in an instant. . . > > Anyone who claims that it’s unreasonable to see them as a serious threat isa liar or an idiot. We all know what the standard is - and it’s painfully obvious that the police do as well. It’s just that “we” do not think it should be the standard. The threat should be real for use of deadly force to be justified. And what makes my assertion all the more credible is that in the majority of cop/civilian dangerous encounters they both walk away. So clearly the majority of cops are able to understand what is a real threat and what is not. The outrage expressed in this thread (and in real life) is that there is a non insignificant number of cops who don’t or can’t understand the difference between a real and perceived threat at seemingly zero consequence to themselves. Even if we concede that these cops had no time to properly evaluate whether the threat was real and made an “honest mistake” the end result is that an innocent person is dead and it is that cop’s fault and has to bear some responsiblility. but time and time and TIME AGAIN we are told that the cop has ZERO culpability in these incidents and the victim is completely to blame. That is the outrageous part. Whether or not you think this is an endemic problem with the police (I do) you have to admit that civilians who are, IN REALITY, not a threat being killed by the police is a serious problem. And anyone who claims that it’s unreasonable to see this as a serious problem isa liar or an idiot. mc ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/12921 "2018-03-29T15:23:39Z")
[Cops confront Domino’s employee over undelivered pizza, get suspended](http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/2018/03/29/cops-assault-dominos-employees-over-undelivered-pizza.html) > [@](#): > > Two New Jersey police officers have been suspended without pay after roughhousing a Domino’s manager because their pizza didn’t get delivered on time. > … > Hudson County Prosecutor Esther Suarez further confirmed to the Journal that both Clark and Solomon are being charged with disorderly conduct, harassment and making terroristic threats. Both officers, who joined the force in 2015, are now due to appear in court regarding the charges on April 10. Good to know that some departments are taking misconduct seriously. Though I don’t doubt this would be taking a different route if there had been no video. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=645) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=647)