# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 651
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13002 "2018-03-31T12:47:51Z")
It seems that it wasn’t that much race-motivated, the other cop was black and his white partner worker with a black guy, so there. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13003 "2018-03-31T12:50:32Z")
If I lived in that neighborhood, I would find it a comfort to know that if someone is reportedly breaking car windows, the police will bring in air support. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13004 "2018-03-31T12:53:52Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > It seems that it wasn’t that much race-motivated, the other cop was black and his white partner worker with a black guy, so there. The problem isn’t necessarily about motivations. If cops are motivated to serve their communities, but whether due to conscious or unconscious biases, are more nervous around young black men and thus more likely to draw their weapons and fire, then that’s a serious problem and needs to be addressed. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13005 "2018-03-31T12:55:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They also appear to have lied in their account, since the autopsy results contradict it. There should be serious consequences for all the officers involved if this is true. They might have misstated the facts of the case, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they were lying. If they were relying on their memories alone, well we know that memories are notoriously unreliable, which is why we had body cameras and autopsies. I do question why their microphones were turned off, though. They shouldn’t have the ability to do that. Officer cams should be like cockpit voice and data recorders - there should be no ‘off’ switch. Hopefully in time the technology will be improved. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13006 "2018-03-31T12:57:29Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > If I lived in that neighborhood, I would find it a comfort to know that if someone is reportedly breaking car windows, the police will bring in air support. I’m not sure where you’re going with that comment. Someone’s going through your neighborhood at night, moving from property to property and car to car to break windows, and you’re saying that if you were in that situation, you would know beyond the shadow of a doubt that this is nothing more the simple vandalism and mischief? The helicopter helped officers locate the suspect, did it not? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13007 "2018-03-31T12:57:48Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They might have misstated the facts of the case, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they were lying. If they were relying on their memories alone, well we know that memories are notoriously unreliable, which is why we had body cameras and autopsies. > > I do question why their microphones were turned off, though. They shouldn’t have the ability to do that. Officer cams should be like cockpit voice and data recorders - there should be no ‘off’ switch. Hopefully in time the technology will be improved. I think you give them far too much benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13008 "2018-03-31T13:01:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think you give them far too much benefit of the doubt. That’s possible; it’s also possible that you’re being too critical. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13009 "2018-03-31T13:06:30Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > That’s possible; it’s also possible that you’re being too critical. I’m being skeptical. And based on the very frequent history of police accounts clashing with other evidence for questionable shootings, I think we should be very skeptical of these accounts. Especially when the evidence conflicts, and extra-especially when the cops do things like turn off their mics in the aftermath. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13010 "2018-04-01T03:25:23Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > So… he was just standing there ? Or did he try to run through the wall ? Maybe he was gonna Hulk out and smash the wall, escaping? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13011 "2018-04-01T03:43:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > They might have misstated the facts of the case, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they were lying. If they were relying on their memories alone, well we know that memories are notoriously unreliable, which is why we had body cameras and autopsies. You know, if I was being deposed (to which a police report is equivalent) and there might be some doubt about what happened, I would state that I was uncertain or otherwise qualify (“…as I recall…”). If you make a strong assertion that turns out to be incorrect, that is not different from lying. If you genuinely believe what you are saying and it is wrong, that is a different problem that needs to be addressed in a different way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13012 "2018-04-03T16:58:11Z")
> **[Videos Show Asheville Police Unconcerned as Officer Beats Black Man for...](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/newly-released-videos-asheville-north-carolina-police-beating-black-man-jaywalking.html)** > > Police choked, punched, and used a stun gun on the victim. Uggh. Disgusting. At least he didn’t end up dead. But it wasn’t just “one bad cop” – all the others just watched, as this guy was beaten up for, at worst, jaywalking. I strongly suspect that there’s something in police officer training, whether informal or formal, in which the message is drilled into new cops that they are _absolutely never to question or challenge the actions of another cop_ during a tense moment. That they must always back each other up, even if they think it’s wrong, or else they’re betraying the blue wall (or something like that). That alone might explain a very large amount of these incidents. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13013 "2018-04-04T02:56:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Asheville police: Videos show beating of black man who allegedly jaywalked.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/newly-released-videos-asheville-north-carolina-police-beating-black-man-jaywalking.html) > > Uggh. Disgusting. At least he didn’t end up dead. But it wasn’t just “one bad cop” – all the others just watched, as this guy was beaten up for, at worst, jaywalking. > > I strongly suspect that there’s something in police officer training, whether informal or formal, in which the message is drilled into new cops that they are _absolutely never to question or challenge the actions of another cop_ during a tense moment. That they must always back each other up, even if they think it’s wrong, or else they’re betraying the blue wall (or something like that). That alone might explain a very large amount of these incidents. I just read the article and this is deplorable. Hickman should have all of those things done to him. Fucking taser in the face over a jaywalking citation. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13014 "2018-04-04T13:32:41Z")
Not US police, but this is a controversial overreach of police authority if I ever saw one: [Beaten, abused, humiliated and filmed by Australian police.](https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/102773786/beaten-abused-humiliated-and-filmed-by-australian-police) If you watch the video, keep in mind that this was a wellness check brought on because the man’s therapist was worried about him. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13015 "2018-04-05T03:56:05Z")
NYPD Brooklyn officers [shoot a man holding a shower head](https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Police-Shooting-Involved-New-York-City-Brooklyn-Crown-Heights-478800703.html). He was apparently pointing the pipe end at people as though it was a pistol. One witness says that they started shooting at him without saying a word to him. The man was known to be bipolar (though the police may not have known that). ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13016 "2018-04-05T08:23:21Z")
There will be much outrage about this but looking at the shots of him pointing the thing at the police you have to wonder what other outcome there could be. The 911 calls reported a man armed with a gun threatening passers-by. When the cops get there and find him pointing what seems to be a gun at them their reaction was inevitable. If the guy weren’t bipolar one might suspect suicide by cop. As it stands though this is just a tragic accident involving a guy who according to his family had refused to take his medication for years. I can certainly understand the grief of his son but his lament that ‘this is what society has come to’ is unjustified in this instance. It’s always been the case that if you take up a firing stance and point what appears to be a weapon at police officers those officers will shoot you. I do sympathize with the family, it has to be tough on them and it’s natural for them to want to blame someone but on the face of it the only one at fault here is the guy that was shot. People with such a condition who don’t take their meds always end up paying the price. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13017 "2018-04-05T08:42:03Z")
Sorry, but this time I don’t see it. He held a gun-like object and pointed it like a gun at the cops. Hell, even I would’ve shot him. The only thing I’d question here is, was it really necessary to shoot 10 times. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13018 "2018-04-05T13:27:06Z")
I see it. Cops kill another unarmed black man. Seems evident to me. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13019 "2018-04-05T15:24:30Z")
And in other news - I just read an opinion piece on CNN by a guy by the name of Luther Tyus. It was about racial bias and police use of force. As an example case he cited the killing of Terrence Crutcher by Deputy Betty Shelby. In support of his opinion he makes the following (inaccurate) claims: Shelby was influenced by the “bad dude” comment she heard over the radio. Fact: That comment was recorded from the helicopters intercom and was not put out over the air. Shelby could not have heard it. Second, the taser officer fired first. Fact: there is no evidence to support this. Most, if not all, accounts have the shots being fired virtually simultaneously. Third, Crutcher fell to the ground where Crutcher shot him. Fact: there no evidence to back this claim up. I never heard anyone even allege this. Fourth: Crutcher was shot in the back. Fact: the autopsy report indicates a “penetrating gunshot wound to the chest”. In short, Tyrus claims that, already racially biased and having this bias reaffirmed by the “bad dude” comment, Shelby shot Crutcher in the back after he fell to the ground as a result of being tased. Talk about alternative facts and fake news! Are opinion pieces not fact checked or edited by anyone? This piece does nothing to help with the understanding of relations between black Americans and the police. In fact, it only fans the flames of a fire that’s burning plenty hot already. I will never believe anything this author asserts as fact without checking into it. Too bad, because much of what he wrote is true. Article - [https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/05/opinions/police-response-deadly-duress-opinion-tyus/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/05/opinions/police-response-deadly-duress-opinion-tyus/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13020 "2018-04-05T15:30:21Z")
Fifth: Crutcher was unarmed and had no gun in the car and was shot and killed by police. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13021 "2018-04-05T16:06:53Z")
Sixth: Crutcher was acutely intoxicated with PCP and tenocyclidine at the time, [kept reaching into his pocket, refused to show his hands, walked towards his vehicle despite being told to stop, and then angled towards and reached into his vehicle.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Terence_Crutcher) Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=650) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=652)