# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 653
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13042 "2018-04-06T12:37:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The police could tell from the helicopter that he was on something Sorry, man, but really??? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13043 "2018-04-06T13:13:37Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I would really love to see some proof of this. From a helicopter somebody can tell if you are intoxicated on PCP? :dubious: He was black, wasn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13044 "2018-04-06T13:15:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The police could tell from the helicopter that he was on something From a helicopter, huh. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13045 "2018-04-06T14:09:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > “They shot him for no reason” vs. “they shot him because he was acting erratic and threatening” - that he was high on drugs makes the first less likely and the second more. How about they shot him because of adrenaline-induced panic and poor training? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13046 "2018-04-06T16:21:24Z")
The Onion. Always The Onion. "African American dad Aaron Mitchell pulled his son aside Thursday to have “the talk” about holding literally any object. " > **[Black Father Gives Son The Talk About Holding Literally Any Object](https://www.theonion.com/black-father-gives-son-the-talk-about-holding-literally-1825024938)** > > NORRISTOWN, PA—Deciding his firstborn was old enough to learn about the cultural dangers of having things in his hands, African American dad Aaron Mitchell pulled his son aside Thursday to have “the talk” about holding literally any object. “Listen,... ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13047 "2018-04-06T17:02:08Z")
Or holding nothing. Don’t forget that fingers can easily be mistaken for gun barrels. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13048 "2018-04-06T17:36:29Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I would really love to see some proof of this. From a helicopter somebody can tell if you are intoxicated on PCP? :dubious: Not that I don’t realize it will do no good at all - > [@](#): > > Around seven seconds following that conversation, someone in the helicopter says “Also, got a feeling it’s about to happen. It looks like a bad dude, too. Might be on something.” [Cite](https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/tulsa-police-release-helicopter-transcripts-in-terence-crutcher-fatal-shooting). As already mentioned, the police officer on the ground had also been trained to recognize the telltale signs of corruption. \*"Mothers of River City - heed that warning before it’s too late! Watch for the telltale signs of corruption. The minute your son leaves the house, does he rebuckle his knickerbockers below the knee? Is there a nicotine stain on his index finger? A dime-novel hidden in the corncrib? Is he starting to memorize jokes from Captain Billy’s Whiz-Bang? Are certain words creeping into his conversation? Words like “swell”? And “So’s your old man”? Well, if so my friends you got trouble! You got terrible, terrible trouble! And that starts with T and that rhymes with P and that stands for PCP!" \* Regards, Harold Hill ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13049 "2018-04-06T17:59:48Z")
Thank you for pointing out that helicopter pilots should shut the fuck up and keep their feelings to themselves. How the holy hell can you tell if someone is on something by staring at their dimly lit and fast-moving silhouettes while sitting in a moving vehicle? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13050 "2018-04-06T18:19:46Z")
It might be relevant that the pilot was the husband of the woman who shot the guy. And he could also tell that he “looks like a bad dude” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13051 "2018-04-06T18:32:37Z")
Like I said, I didn’t think it was going to do any good. “You cannot reason a man out of a position he didn’t reason himself into” and all that. They can see it from the helicopter, they can see it from the ground, toxicology tests show that they saw it for real. But Dopers can’t see it. Imagine my surprise. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13052 "2018-04-06T18:36:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Like I said, I didn’t think it was going to do any good. “You cannot reason a man out of a position he didn’t reason himself into” and all that. > > They can see it from the helicopter, they can see it from the ground, toxicology tests show that they saw it for real. But Dopers can’t see it. Imagine my surprise. > > Regards, > Shodan Sure it did. I firmly believe that a guy in a helicopter above said “Might be on something.” ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13053 "2018-04-06T19:01:21Z")
I’ve watched those videos (Crutcher shooting) many times. I’ve been a first hand witness (also many times) to various individuals under the influence of different drugs - alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroin, methadone, opium, **PCP** , LSD, Extasy, amphetamines, barbiturates\*. . .etc. While Crutcher’s actions **could** be interpreted as intoxication, it could also be interpreted as some sort of medical emergency such as hypoglycemia, TIA, emotional breakdown, or even of him being deaf or not speaking English. The conclusion “he’s on PCP” is not completely obvious from his actions. And absent of any other evidence (such as witness testimony, or paraphernalia) the fact that the cops went first to “Might be on something.” speaks volumes to me about the problematic nature of the state of policing. mc (\*I have got to get some different friends!) ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13054 "2018-04-06T19:20:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure it did. I firmly believe that a guy in a helicopter above said “Might be on something.” Perfect cover words for any later investigation. Also see “He’s reaching for something”, “He’s coming right for us”, “He isn’t complying” etc. Full stop–unless a cop has confirmed eyes on a gun in hand of the suspect, and that gun is being actively used in a threatening manner, then the cop firing his weapon is never justifiable. Shooting at shadows, mystery objects, or in simple fear should be an immediate firing from the job. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13055 "2018-04-06T19:21:48Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > The conclusion “he’s on PCP” is not completely obvious from his actions. And absent of any other evidence (such as witness testimony, or paraphernalia) the fact that the cops went first to “Might be on something.” speaks volumes to me about the problematic nature of the state of policing. Speaks volumes about what problem? The police could recognize that he was on PCP and another hallucinogenic drug, and sure enough, he was. The tox tests showed it. “It looks like he might be on something.” He \*was \*on something. How is this a problem? This is just weird. When the cops’ judgment is wrong, that’s a problem. When their judgment is right, that’s a problem. Heads I win, tails you lose. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13056 "2018-04-06T19:23:54Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Fifth: Crutcher was unarmed and had no gun in the car and was shot and killed by police. So what does that have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13057 "2018-04-06T19:24:37Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Full stop–unless a cop has confirmed eyes on a gun in hand of the suspect, and that gun is being actively used in a threatening manner, then the cop firing his weapon is never justifiable. Shooting at shadows, mystery objects, or in simple fear should be an immediate firing from the job. “Confirmed”? "“Being actively used?” You’re an idiot. Full stop. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13058 "2018-04-06T19:28:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > No, he did not. I have seen the video. He never opened the door, and the window was up. Either the officer making the report lied or someone needs their eyes checked. I believe you are the one with vision problems. I don’t see conclusive video one way or the other as to whether his hands went into the window opening. Yes, he never opened the door. No, the window was not completely closed. This was an issue at trial. I’ve never seen the photos but apparently they exist and show the window to be part way down. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13059 "2018-04-06T19:30:51Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > So what does that have to do with anything? It has to do with the fact that police shot an unarmed black man. Again. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13060 "2018-04-06T19:31:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > “Confirmed”? "“Being actively used?” > > You’re an idiot. Full stop. > > Regards, > Shodan Somehow unarmed UK police are able to deal with the unlicensed detached shower fixture menace on the streets without reactive lethal force. Why can’t the US? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13061 "2018-04-06T19:32:28Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > No, the window was not completely closed How do you know? Have you seen any photos of the window? > [@](#): > > I’ve never seen the photos but apparently they exist and show the window to be part way down. No, I guess you haven’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=652) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=654)