# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1301 "2015-03-20T17:15:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The “theory” is itself racist. No, it isn’t. It’s either true or false. It’s not a judgement, or a moral statement, it’s a factual statement to be either proved or disproved. > [@](#): > > Is the assertion “Jews are inherently more greedy and less trustworthy, on average, due to genetics” racist/bigoted? Or “black people are, on average, morally incapable of interacting respectfully with others, due to genetics”? If these are indeed racist, why would an assertion about black people and lower intelligence not be racist? No, they are not racist. The people making the statements, and their reasons for doing so, and the actions they hope to provoke by making those statements, almost certainly are. You may think this is a distinction without a difference, but I don’t. That those statements are almost certainly false makes it much easier to say that the person uttering them is racist, but an assertion by itself, devoid of context, cannot be. > [@](#): > > And if those assertions are not racist, then it sets the bar so high that even _19th century supporters of slavery_ don’t count as having made racist assertions. Not really. “Blacks are subhuman” is a statement that’s either true or false (spoiler alert - it’s false). “Blacks are subhuman so it’s fine to enslave them and treat them worse than animals” is a racist opinion, and a call to racist behaviour. Actually enslaving people because of their skin colour (or for that matter, doing _anything else_ to someone because of their skin colour) is racism. The act, the opinion, the person, they can be racist. The assertion that something is a certain way is either true or false, and by itself has no moral component, any more that “the sun revolves round the earth” does, to pick an example from further back in time. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1302 "2015-03-20T17:35:08Z")
As requested, a [brand new Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=752213) just to discuss this latest bit of batshittery… This goes beyond “It’s not racist if it’s true” into new uncharted territory ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1303 "2015-03-21T00:06:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I didn’t call him that. I simply mentioned that other people had. Specifically, people who agreed with him, something I’m never likely to be accused of. [Moderating] Nice try, but you’re not getting around the rule that way. “You’re a cunt” and “Other people say you’re a cunt” are effectively the same thing, as far as I (and the board rules) am concerned. If you want to discuss this further, take it to ATMB or PM. Don’t pursue it in this thread. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1304 "2015-03-23T18:03:45Z")
It’s not just humans who are suffering for [bad behavior by cops](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/17/cop-kills-burberry_n_6888326.html): (warning – dead dog). ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1305 "2015-03-23T18:17:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not just humans who are suffering for [bad behavior by cops](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/17/cop-kills-burberry_n_6888326.html): (warning – dead dog). How dare you compare the treatment of humans to the treatment of dogs? Racist! If you think that’s absurd, that’s _exactly_ how people feel reading MrDibble’s outrage at the analogy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1306 "2015-03-23T18:28:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > How dare you compare the treatment of humans to the treatment of dogs? Racist! > > If you think that’s absurd, that’s _exactly_ how people feel reading MrDibble’s outrage at the analogy. In a wild coincidence, there’s an ongoing discussion on that subject in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=752213). ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1307 "2015-03-23T20:06:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In a wild coincidence, there’s an ongoing discussion on that subject in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=752213). For some reason I thought I was in that thread, sorry for the further hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1308 "2015-03-24T17:57:17Z")
A Hummelstown, PA cop is facing a murder charge; who’d thunk it could happen? [ > [@](#): > > A Pennsylvania police officer was charged Tuesday with criminal homicide after investigators concluded she shot an unarmed motorist in the back as he lay face down after a traffic stop over an expired inspection sticker. > > Authorities accused Hummelstown police officer Lisa Mearkle, 36, of shooting David Kassick, 59, twice on Feb. 2 without legal justification. ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5bd3c7c47b8e474dba4ae7f083097598/pa-officer-charged-fatal-shooting-unarmed-motorist](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5bd3c7c47b8e474dba4ae7f083097598/pa-officer-charged-fatal-shooting-unarmed-motorist)) It seems that she had used her stun gun and it had a video recording device:[ > [@](#): > > The stun gun recorded portions of the encounter, which District Attorney Ed Marsico called the strongest evidence in the case. > > He said it appeared Kassick had been trying to remove stun-gun probes from his back. > > “At the time Officer Mearkle fires both rounds from her pistol, the video clearly depicts Kassick lying on the snow covered lawn with his face toward the ground,” according to the arrest affidavit. “Furthermore, at the time the rounds are fired nothing can be seen in either of Kassick’s hands, nor does he point or direct anything toward Officer Mearkle.” ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5bd3c7c47b8e474dba4ae7f083097598/pa-officer-charged-fatal-shooting-unarmed-motorist](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5bd3c7c47b8e474dba4ae7f083097598/pa-officer-charged-fatal-shooting-unarmed-motorist)) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1309 "2015-03-24T18:10:49Z")
Until **Smapti** gets here, allow me to mention in his stead, “driving is a privileged, not a right!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1310 "2015-03-25T00:15:59Z")
Sometimes, in controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians, it’s not always law enforcement that’s in the wrong. [Watch this idiot radically misunderstand his rights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjQc-2GBlYw) and get tazed and arrested as a result of it. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1311 "2015-03-25T17:26:13Z")
[538](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/another-much-higher-count-of-police-homicides/) has starting looking into the issue of killings by police FBI reports indicate that about 400 people are killed by police annually in the USA. 538 decided to look into that a bit. > [@](#): > > But one recent effort stood out for its apparent comprehensiveness: [The Killed By Police Facebook page](https://www.facebook.com/KilledByPolice), which aggregates links to news articles on police-related killings and keeps a running tally on the number of victims. The creator of the page does not seek to determine whether police killings are justifiable; each post “merely documents the occurrence of a death.” He told FiveThirtyEight that he was an instructor on nonviolent physical-intervention techniques and that he prefers to remain anonymous. > > Killed by Police had listed more than 1,450 deaths caused by law-enforcement officers since its launch, on May 1, 2013, through Sunday. That works out to about three per day, or 1,100 a year. 538 randomly followed up on 10% of the reported deaths and determined that about 85% were clearly police caused deaths in the line of duty. Other deaths (taserings, for example) would raise that to 93%. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, it’s a good indication that “400 police homicides” isn’t a useful baseline number for the number of people killed by police each year. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1312 "2015-03-25T17:47:46Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Sometimes, in controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians, it’s not always law enforcement that’s in the wrong. [Watch this idiot radically misunderstand his rights](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjQc-2GBlYw) and get tazed and arrested as a result of it. “Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!” ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1313 "2015-03-25T22:11:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!” You need help. I’m serious. I hope the technology to fix whatever is wrong with your brain comes along one day within your lifetime, and mine too. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1314 "2015-03-27T11:56:34Z")
Anyone got any opinions on this? [Black woman locked in psych ward for eight days because they didn’t think she was a businesswoman](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/03/24/black-woman-locked-in-psych-ward-for-8-days-because-cops-couldnt-believe-shes-a-businesswoman/) The original charge, smoking pot, was unfounded. She was then kept on drugs in a psychiatric ward unti she said that, and I quote: “Objective: Patient will verbalize the importance of education for employment and will state that Obama is not following her on Twitter,” and “patient’s weaknesses: inability to test reality, unemployment.” She was employed and earning good money and Obama’s Twitter team really did follow her.The staff apparently made no attempt to verify what she claimed, after she was arrested for “smelling of pot” and never charged for anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1315 "2015-03-27T12:54:52Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Anyone got any opinions on this? [Black woman locked in psych ward for eight days because they didn’t think she was a businesswoman](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/03/24/black-woman-locked-in-psych-ward-for-8-days-because-cops-couldnt-believe-shes-a-businesswoman/) I love that there was no apology but that she was given a $13,000 bill. That story is so fucked up it is scary, literally a nightmare scenario for most people. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1316 "2015-03-27T15:13:21Z")
From the story, it looks like she got arrested because someone thought she was mouthing off when she went to get her car. If I was her, I’d make a condition of my lawsuit that some people are fired, i.e. “I want $10 million, but I’ll settle for $5 mill as long as X, Y and Z never ever work in law enforcement again.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1317 "2015-03-27T15:19:40Z")
**SciFiSam** , for the first time that I can ever remember, a posting on the Straight Dope has brought tears to my eyes. I’m so sick of this fucked-up world! I’m fuckng sick of it! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1318 "2015-03-27T15:25:16Z")
I find it so strange that this could happen, when the genuinely mentally ill are getting no help whatsoever in much of America. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1319 "2015-03-27T15:45:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **SciFiSam** , for the first time that I can ever remember, a posting on the Straight Dope has brought tears to my eyes. > > I’m so sick of this fucked-up world! I’m fuckng sick of it! Not only do I hope she sues and gets a huge settlement, but I hope she turns her experience into a movie starring either Viola Davis or Angela Basset. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/1320 "2015-03-27T15:56:53Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I find it so strange that this could happen, when the genuinely mentally ill are getting no help whatsoever in much of America. Maybe they should talk to a cop. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=67)