# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 661
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13202 "2018-04-16T05:05:14Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > That is somewhat problematic, though. If a police officer kills a person, they have by definition killed an innocent person, at least with respect to the events in question, as the person cannot have already been convicted of what they are suspected of. Unless, of course, they are an escaped convict. Not at all. Before trials, people are “presumed innocent,” not actually innocent. And while actually putting the dead guy on trial would be ridiculous, that doesn’t mean lesser levels of investigation couldn’t ensue. I would presume the person is talking about those situations where it’s immediately apparent that the cop’s assessment was incorrect. It would basically be a reason to train cops to better identify threats, instead of just defaulting to the idea that someone was a threat. It would incentivize using less confrontational techniques in situations where possible. It would push actual defense, making sure cops are safe, rather than offensive defense, where they are safe because they shoot when there’s a 5% chance that it’s a threat. Personally, I’m not sure a full firing is warranted, but I definitely like the idea of a punishment, even if the death was an accident. We need to incentivize fewer killings. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13203 "2018-04-16T15:57:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > While no one was shot, or even injured, [this is not really an example of exemplary police work.](https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliareinstein/starbucks-arrest-viral-black-men-waiting-philadelphia?utm_term=.wdK1WwW0V#.ydEQDxDlz) [Police didn’t shoot anyone here. Probably should have. Still, not an example of exemplary police work.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/california-gunman-terrorized-neighbors-but-eluded-sheriffs-deputies/ar-AAvTK3U) > [@](#): > > A Sacramento Bee investigation, based on interviews, court records and Sheriff’s Office dispatch logs, reveals a volatile neighborhood feud that mushroomed into mayhem. Despite a restraining order requiring him to surrender his weapons, Neal routinely frightened his neighbors in remote Rancho Tehama Reserve by firing guns in the air. At least nine people brought Neal’s erratic behavior to the attention of the Sheriff’s Office with few tangible results, The Bee found. > > \ > > In the year leading up to his deadly rampage, the Tehama County Sheriff’s Office logged 20 calls from Neal, his wife and their immediate neighbors as their dispute escalated. At least three other people living nearby called the Sheriff’s Office about gunfire in the neighborhood, although dispatch logs don’t identify the shooter. Research by The Bee also uncovered additional calls about Neal _that apparently weren’t logged or recorded by dispatchers -_ including one from Neal’s sister, warning about her brother’s mental state. Soooooo. Crazy guy with guns acting crazy. Shooting said guns all the freaking time. Over the span a fucking _year_. Neighbors and family members calling the cops telling them that he is fucking crazy. Cops do as little as humanly possible. > [@](#): > > Deputies who were called to Neal’s remote neighborhood typically spent more time driving there than they did on the scene. One visit to the neighborhood last August, prompted by a complaint about Neal’s gunfire, lasted eight minutes. Deputies handled some complaints by phone. Crazy guy ends up shooting up a school, killing 5 before killing himself. As you probably have guessed, Kevin Janson Neal was a white guy. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13204 "2018-04-16T17:11:36Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I understand your position. You think people who defend themselves when they genuinely, and reasonably, believe they are about to be killed should be locked up if it turns out they were mistaken. Really, the question of whether it’s cops or not is something of a red herring, _everyone_ should have the right to defend themselves, the only relevance of them being cops is that you are sending them into danger on your behalf, and so it’s more immoral to want to weaken that right for them. So a civilian who accidentally kills a police officer-out of a genuine and reasonable fear for his life- should not be locked up? Self defense, no worries? I mean, everyone has that right to defend themselves, even civilians who feel a stranger is about to attack- and it turns out the stranger has a badge? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13205 "2018-04-16T17:14:33Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So a civilian who accidentally kills a police officer-out of a genuine and reasonable fear for his life- should not be locked up? Self defense, no worries? > > I mean, everyone has that right to defend themselves, even civilians who feel a stranger is about to attack- and it turns out the stranger has a badge? That radio or badge the cop holds might be a gun-Would it be reasonable to go ahead and shoot them if they walked towards me holding…something? ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13206 "2018-04-16T18:06:40Z")
“He raised his arm and I saw metal gleaming in his hand, so I… What ? Oh, yes, he claimed to be a cop, but you know how it is. We are constantly warned about crooks that pose as cops. I was afraid, so I took him down as I’ve been taught by responsible gun-owners. Twenty shots to the center of the mass. Yes, your honor, I’m as innocent as they make them, he should have never been there on a neighborhood like that…” * * * “You shot him because he had a bulge in his pocket ? “Yes, I was _terrified_.” “It wasn’t a gun, he was just happy to see you.” " I KNOW !” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13207 "2018-04-16T18:39:55Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So a civilian who accidentally kills a police officer-out of a genuine and reasonable fear for his life- should not be locked up? Self defense, no worries? > > I mean, everyone has that right to defend themselves, even civilians who feel a stranger is about to attack- and it turns out the stranger has a badge? Sure, if you can convince a jury that your fear was reasonable. “Yeah, I was stealing a car, and some stranger ran up to me yelling ‘Police! Freeze!’ and he was wearing a blue uniform. How was I supposed to know he was a cop?” Good luck with that, or rather, the opposite. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13208 "2018-04-16T20:21:40Z")
How about I’m walking late at night, in a sketchy neighborhood and some guy is walking briskly toward me. He doesn’t say he’s police but he reaches toward me. I shot him. I’m a woman, it’s a bad neighborhood, and hey, I’m armed. Turns out he was a plainclothes cop. Reasonable fear for my life? When a cop shoots someone, even if that someone is unarmed, it’s ruled justified and never sees a court room. All that training, authority, equipment, etc, and they are held to a lower standard than civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13209 "2018-04-16T20:32:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sure, if you can convince a jury that your fear was reasonable. > > “Yeah, I was stealing a car, and some stranger ran up to me yelling ‘Police! Freeze!’ and he was wearing a blue uniform. How was I supposed to know he was a cop?” > > Good luck with that, or rather, the opposite. > > Regards, > Shodan Are you perhaps channeling questions from another universe? None of what you wrote in your hypothetical quote pertains to what was said, so what’s going on here? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13210 "2018-04-16T20:44:44Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > How about I’m walking late at night, in a sketchy neighborhood and some guy is walking briskly toward me. He doesn’t say he’s police but he reaches toward me. I shot him. I’m a woman, it’s a bad neighborhood, and hey, I’m armed. Turns out he was a plainclothes cop. > Reasonable fear for my life? You are entitled to use lethal force when in a situation where a reasonable person would fear death or serious bodily injury, so you would need to convince the jury of that. It’s possible, but rather few police shootings match the circumstances as you describe. > [@](#): > > When a cop shoots someone, even if that someone is unarmed, it’s ruled justified and never sees a court room. All that training, authority, equipment, etc, and they are held to a lower standard than civilians. No, it is the same standard. Of course, police are more likely to be in situations where it is legally and morally necessary to shoot someone - citizen’s arrest is much less common that arrests by police. I will assume you don’t really mean the part about how cops never see a courtroom, so no cites are necessary. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you perhaps channeling questions from another universe? None of what you wrote in your hypothetical quote pertains to what was said, so what’s going on here? You are stupid and/or trolling. That’s what’s going on. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13211 "2018-04-16T20:56:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are stupid and/or trolling. Don’t you have any other prepubescent bon mots in your repertoire? This one’s getting stale…although it is slightly amusing if I imagine it said by Dudley Manlove’s “Eros” in _Plan 9 From Outer Space_. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13212 "2018-04-16T21:54:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are entitled to use lethal force when in a situation where a reasonable person would fear death or serious bodily injury, so you would need to convince the jury of that. It’s possible, but rather few police shootings match the circumstances as you describe.No, it is the same standard. Of course, police are more likely to be in situations where it is legally and morally necessary to shoot someone - citizen’s arrest is much less common that arrests by police. > > I will assume you don’t really mean the part about how cops never see a courtroom, so no cites are necessary. > You are stupid and/or trolling. That’s what’s going on. > > Regards, > Shodan I didnt mean to imply “never” and I certainly didnt say “never.” I should have said _rarely_. Once it is internally called “justified” it rarely then goes to a criminal court. Perhaps you disagree about that? Can you imagine a scenario as I outlined above being shrugged off and called justified \*without \*going to court? Investigated by the police and then “no charges filed” because I am a woman and I may be reasonably said to be fearful of strange men in bad neighborhoods? Police who shoot someone who is unarmed \*rarely \*face trial for the shooting. It is investigated internally, but it does not then get tried in court. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13213 "2018-04-17T03:50:44Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > … > > As you probably have guessed, Kevin Janson Neal was a white guy. I expected, that would be the final line. > **[80-year-old man allegedly confessed to murdering Kansas City lawyer,...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/80-year-man-allegedly-confessed-murdering-kansas-city/story?id=54396502)** > > The attorney had obtained a $5.75 million verdict against the suspect months before the shooting. > [@](#): > > An 80-year-old man has allegedly **confessed – by an accidental recording** – to shooting and killing a Kansas City lawyer last fall, prosecutors announced Wednesday. > > Raytown, Missouri, resident David Jungerman has been charged with first-degree murder in the Oct. 25 death of attorney Tom Pickert, who was shot and killed in front of his Kansas City home in October after dropping his kids off at school, according to a criminal complaint filed Tuesday in a Jackson County, Missouri, circuit court. … After the civil verdict, Pickert told his wife that Jungerman had threatened him, the complaint states. Pickert had also told two other people that after the verdict was read and most people had left the courtroom, Jungerman approached him in an “aggressive manner” while he was gathering his things, according to the complaint. > > Pickert thought Jungerman was going to yell or punch him, but instead, Jungerman allegedly said, “ **None of this matters. I have 186 guns. I did it once before. I will do it again. You can’t touch me** ,” according to the complaint. … Jungerman allegedly made the admission of guilt in Pickert’s killing during audio recording made on Nov. 16, according to the complaint, which includes a portion of the audio’s transcript. … “ **Hey, you know … people, uh, know that I murdered that son of a b----** ,” Jungerman said, according to the complaint. > > Jungerman later stated that even “police know too” and asked how anyone could ever find out. He then stated, “ **That motherf----- has caused me a lot of problems, you know** ,” apparently referring to Pickert, according to prosecutors. … After the shooting, Jungerman voluntarily agreed to go with detectives to police headquarters to give a statement and smiled when they asked if they knew why he was there, the complaint states. > > While in the room alone, Jungerman allegedly muttered to himself, “Keep your f----- mouth shut,” police said. … One of Jungerman’s former employees told authorities that **Jungerman would often threaten to shoot people when they upset him and "would advise people that he had plenty of acreage where a body could be dumped** , the complaint states. > > Another former employee told police that Jungerman would become “very angry and aggressive regarding **anything that costs him money** ,” and a third former employee said Jungerman **used to "brag that he could get away with anything by claiming that he had Alzheimer’s disease** ," according to the complaint. … A fucked up old white guy. He could face the death penalty. Usually, I’m against it, but in this case, I’d throw the damn switch on him myself. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13214 "2018-04-17T10:55:41Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So a civilian who accidentally kills a police officer-out of a genuine and reasonable fear for his life- should not be locked up? Self defense, no worries? > > I mean, everyone has that right to defend themselves, even civilians who feel a stranger is about to attack- and it turns out the stranger has a badge? > [@raventhief](#): > > How about I’m walking late at night, in a sketchy neighborhood and some guy is walking briskly toward me. He doesn’t say he’s police but he reaches toward me. I shot him. I’m a woman, it’s a bad neighborhood, and hey, I’m armed. Turns out he was a plainclothes cop. > Reasonable fear for my life? My argument has always been that it’s not reasonable to fear that a cop _who is doing their job_ is not an imminent threat, and it’s not reasonable to consider them as one. As **Shodan** points out, cops are extremely recognisable in uniform, and will also announce themselves as police, so saying you didn’t realise they were police is almost always nonsense. A cop who’s not wearing uniform and who doesn’t say they are a cop, but nonetheless acts in a threatening way to someone is a different matter. I’m not sure if there’s any circumstamces where a cop could be doing their job and act that way towards someone who’s not already committing a crime, but if they do it may well be reasonable to act in self defence. > [@](#): > > When a cop shoots someone, even if that someone is unarmed, it’s ruled justified and never sees a court room. All that training, authority, equipment, etc, and they are held to a lower standard than civilians. Then apply the same standard to civilians, if they claim to be the victim of a crime not the criminal, and unless their claim is seriously implausible, treat them as innocent until proven guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13215 "2018-04-17T10:57:37Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > As you probably have guessed, Kevin Janson Neal was a white guy. I’m inclined to think that it’s at least partly not the case that black people are treated badly so much as white people are treated too well… Equality should not lead to more people getting away with shit like this. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13216 "2018-04-17T13:06:23Z")
So [Sacto police waited 5 minutes before attempting any first aid on Stephon Clark](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-stephon-clark-videos_us_5ad5afb1e4b016a07ea01eb2). They had to wait long enough for him to be dead and therefore not a threat, before trying to save his life. (But I suppose it was a good kill. The 2nd A may give Clark the right to carry a gun, but it says nothing about carrying a cell-phone.) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13217 "2018-04-17T13:11:02Z")
Well, he was probably bleeding in a threatening manner. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13218 "2018-04-17T13:20:57Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I didnt mean to imply “never” and I certainly didnt say “never.” I should have said _rarely_. Once it is internally called “justified” it rarely then goes to a criminal court. Perhaps you disagree about that? What would be the point of trying an officer who has been cleared by investigation? They tried that with Darren Wilson. What was achieved in that case? In general, to be tried criminally one must be indicted by a grand jury. I assume you don’t mean that should be bypassed every time a cop shoots someone. Are you saying that the investigation should be replaced by a grand jury investigation? I don’t see what that achieves. > [@](#): > > Can you imagine a scenario as I outlined above being shrugged off and called justified \*without \*going to court? Investigated by the police and then “no charges filed” because I am a woman and I may be reasonably said to be fearful of strange men in bad neighborhoods? I can’t imagine it would be shrugged off. It would be investigated, and if no probable cause exists, then no charges would be filed. There are somewhere around 400K and 3 million defensive gun uses in the US every year. They certainly aren’t all brought before a grand jury, although they are investigated. I think part of the problem is that examples of the scenario you suggest, where someone shoots a cop who does not identify himself but threatens a citizen, where the citizen is then indicted, are going to be rare. Do you have any examples of it happening? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13219 "2018-04-17T13:53:57Z")
[Here is one.](http://www.kristv.com/story/34045158/man-accused-of-shooting-ccpd-officers-found-not-guilty) The guy was found Not Guilty. [Here’s another one](https://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-officer-shot-killed-no-knock-raid/) I think that guy is still awaiting trial. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13220 "2018-04-17T14:00:26Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > [Police didn’t shoot anyone here. Probably should have. Still, not an example of exemplary police work.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/california-gunman-terrorized-neighbors-but-eluded-sheriffs-deputies/ar-AAvTK3U) > > Soooooo. Crazy guy with guns acting crazy. Shooting said guns all the freaking time. Over the span a fucking _year_. Neighbors and family members calling the cops telling them that he is fucking crazy. Cops do as little as humanly possible. > > Crazy guy ends up shooting up a school, killing 5 before killing himself. > > As you probably have guessed, Kevin Janson Neal was a white guy. You know what really is at fault is that the school was a gun-free zone. If teachers had been packing heat, this guy wouldn’t have been crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13221 "2018-04-17T14:18:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > [Here is one.](http://www.kristv.com/story/34045158/man-accused-of-shooting-ccpd-officers-found-not-guilty) > > The guy was found Not Guilty. > > [Here’s another one](https://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-officer-shot-killed-no-knock-raid/) > > I think that guy is still awaiting trial. Neither of those cases has anything to do with an out of uniform cop approaching someone in public. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=660) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=662)