# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 668
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13342 "2018-04-29T20:41:51Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > There was video. Suspect had no gun in hands while running away. He was shot in the back while running way and fell face first. There was no gun. You can actually hear other cops saying there’s no gun whilst kneeling beside him. They did not find a gun till the dug it out of his pants. These are facts. > > Hence, the cop could not have seen this gun. This is logic. Not very good logic. The video does not cover the whole incident. So again, your assertion that it was a guess remains that, not anything proven. As mentioned, the cop haters are tying themselves into knots saying that even when the cops are right, and are proven right, they are still wrong. It’s too bad, in a way - this kind of nonsense makes it that much harder to take situations seriously even when they ought to be. You can only cry [del]racism[/del] “Wolf” so often. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13343 "2018-04-29T20:58:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not very good logic. The video does not cover the whole incident. So again, your assertion that it was a guess remains that, not anything proven. > > As mentioned, the cop haters are tying themselves into knots saying that even when the cops are right, and are proven right, they are still wrong. It’s too bad, in a way - this kind of nonsense makes it that much harder to take situations seriously even when they ought to be. You can only cry [del]racism[/del] “Wolf” so often. > > Regards, > Shodan I dunno who the cop haters are, or if you are here referring to the people who would like to see the police better funded and trained, but your conclusion is fallacious at best. That you think that holding those tasked to uphold our justice system to any kind of standard is “hating” is what makes it hard to make any sort of improvements in the way that law enforcement interacts with the communities that pay for it to protect them. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13344 "2018-04-29T21:38:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [Police not charged after tasering a naked man 18 times in his own shower. He died.](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2018/04/27/no-charges-against-west-milwaukee-officers-death-mentally-ill-man-hit-18-times-taser/552071002/)Coincidentally, he was black. Are they police or artless thugs? It can be hard to tell. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13345 "2018-04-30T02:53:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > the cop haters Hey, Shodan. You forgot to win the argument with “Why you hate America ?”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13346 "2018-04-30T12:02:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That you think that holding those tasked to uphold our justice system to any kind of standard is “hating” is what makes it hard to make any sort of improvements in the way that law enforcement interacts with the communities that pay for it to protect them. I don’t object to “any kind of standard”. I object to the standard of “even when the police are right, they are wrong”. > [@SaneBill](#): > > Hey, Shodan. You forgot to win the argument with “Why you hate America ?”. Not sure I agree with about half your screen name there, **Bill**. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13347 "2018-04-30T12:20:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not sure I agree with about half your screen name there, **Bill**. Now you and Clothahump have one more thing in common. You’re treading on a dangerous ground, soon we can’t tell you apart. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13348 "2018-04-30T13:11:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Still waiting for a response to my earlier question. You claim that there is no downside to the cops saying “He’s got a gun” every time they confront a suspect, yet cops do not say “He’s got a gun” every time they confront a suspect. How do you reconcile that contradiction? > > Regards, > Shodan Hey look, cops are learning! [“Cell phones can be converted into weapons,” the officer says."](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sdut-sandiego-police-arrest-cellphone-weapon-video-2013apr11-htmlstory.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13349 "2018-04-30T18:18:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t object to “any kind of standard”. I object to the standard of “even when the police are right, they are wrong”. What’s crazy is you very quickly switch that around and hang on to it for dear life, like trying to argue a cop was threatened and had a gun pointed at him when the video showed absolutely nothing of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13350 "2018-04-30T18:52:20Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > What’s crazy is you very quickly switch that around and hang on to it for dear life, like trying to argue a cop was threatened and had a gun pointed at him when the video showed absolutely nothing of the sort. Sure, but the cop was right! The guy had a gun! Not that he pointed it at anyone, or threatened anyone with it, or anything like that. He had a gun! The cop said so, and the cop was right. So, the guy gets shot. Because he had a gun. I guess mere possession of a gun gets you shot now. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13351 "2018-04-30T19:07:16Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > What’s crazy is you very quickly switch that around and hang on to it for dear life, like trying to argue a cop was threatened and had a gun pointed at him when the video showed absolutely nothing of the sort. This is more a standard of “the police are assumed to be lying unless they have Hollywood-quality video of every single second of every encounter from beginning to end. In 3D.” And even then, those who are pacifists in the war of ideas - like you - will make a determined effort to become more stupid than they already are. Congratulations on your success in that endeavor. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13352 "2018-04-30T19:09:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure, but the cop was right! The guy had a gun! Not that he pointed it at anyone, or threatened anyone with it, or anything like that. He had a gun! The cop said so, and the cop was right. So, the guy gets shot. Because he had a gun. I guess mere possession of a gun gets you shot now. And you know what, I suspect that he had a gun at home also. The cop didn’t say “He’s carrying a gun right now!” so why limit it on the suspects person at the moment. Has anybody checked out their homes before coming here to demonize these valiant men of law and justice ? I remember this case where one guy had in his home enough bullets to kill 200 people! ( 200 pcs ) And enough knives for a couple of millions more ! ( 1 pcs ) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13353 "2018-04-30T19:31:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is more a standard of “the police are assumed to be lying unless they have Hollywood-quality video of every single second of every encounter from beginning to end. In 3D.” At the risk of having a rational discourse, it isn’t a case of “the police are assumed to be lying unless they have Hollywood-quality video of every single second of every encounter from beginning to end. In 3D.” It’s a case of “There are many incidents caught on tape where a cop is lying. Some of those times, a guy is shot to death. The cop then goes on to lie about it on reports and such. The rest of the police stick up for the cop. The police union calls any attempt to prosecute the cop a “witch-hunt”. Cop supporters remain mysteriously silent with regards to video evidence of wrong-doing by police and their attempts to cover it up. Cops on this very message board remain silent instead of outwardly condemning the actions of these “few” police officers. Taken all together, a pattern starts to emerge whereby police become the bad guys, and their actions are subject to heightened scrutiny, especially when a black man is shot, due to biases created by previous videos, lies, and outright coverups.” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13354 "2018-04-30T19:53:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is more a standard of "the police are assumed to be lying unless … So far, their track record has not been helping them. We hope that the people granted this on-the-ground authority over our lives are honorable and forthright, but recent evidence has dashed this hope quite thoroughly. No longer is it reasonable to accept officers’ word at face value (if, in truth, it ever was), and their testimony at trial should not be given greater weight than any others’. This is a problem that seriously needs to be corrected. The force seems to prefer a fix that adds up to less coverage of their activities, in which case I would counter by offering them severely reduce power and discretion. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13355 "2018-05-01T03:46:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is more a standard of “the police are assumed to be lying unless they have Hollywood-quality video of every single second of every encounter from beginning to end. In 3D.” > > And even then, those who are pacifists in the war of ideas - like you - will make a determined effort to become more stupid than they already are. Congratulations on your success in that endeavor. > > Regards, > Shodan We don’t need Hollywood-quality video of every second - we have perfectly clear video of the moment he was shot, in the back, with no gun in his hands. I’m stealing that pacifist line, because it’s hilarious. I won’t bother with credit, however, because I’m certain you’re not smart enough to have come up with it. I won’t engage in a war of ideas with you, because there’s no need to launch nukes at a parrot. You have nothing beyond overused “conservative” shit talk, “NO U”, “NEENER NEENER I’M NOT LISTENING”, and “ur dumb.” Strangely enough, a quick Google search turns up only a single result, a 1993 editorial ranting about “socialist economics” and the “‘liberal-left’ and ‘radical feminist’ agenda” being supported by corporations, while claiming conservative views inherently hold the morally and economically correct high ground. Sounds familiar, and just as ridiculously stupid now as it did 25 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13356 "2018-05-01T05:30:54Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > … I’m stealing that pacifist line, because it’s hilarious. … Actually, in terms of wit or humor, it is not. What **The Regarder** is putting forth is that discourse should be viewed as a sort of martial activity, which ends up leaving a Shermanesque trail of devastation in its wake. As someone once said, _War determines not who is right, only who is left_. In math and chemistry and trivial pursuits, there are actual correct and incorrect answers to most questions. In the realm of social/cultural ideas, there are not, because humans are rather elaborate things that engage in complex and sometimes baffling interactions with other humans. Actual correct answers in this area of study are fleeting in scope, because humans change in ways that defy prediction, changing society along with them. Hence, you are wrong. And so is that there fuckwit. And so am I. And unless we can come to terms with that and establish a mode of discourse that favors convergence of perspectives over invective and intransigence, the overall situation can only become steadily worse. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13357 "2018-05-01T08:20:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Actually, in terms of wit or humor, it is not. What **The Regarder** is putting forth is that discourse should be viewed as a sort of martial activity, which ends up leaving a Shermanesque trail of devastation in its wake. As someone once said, _War determines not who is right, only who is left_. > > In math and chemistry and trivial pursuits, there are actual correct and incorrect answers to most questions. In the realm of social/cultural ideas, there are not, because humans are rather elaborate things that engage in complex and sometimes baffling interactions with other humans. Actual correct answers in this area of study are fleeting in scope, because humans change in ways that defy prediction, changing society along with them. > > Hence, you are wrong. And so is that there fuckwit. And so am I. And unless we can come to terms with that and establish a mode of discourse that favors convergence of perspectives over invective and intransigence, the overall situation can only become steadily worse. There’s no convergence of perspective when one side is arguing that shooting someone in the back and then lying that there was a gun pointed at him at the time, was justified. There’s no compromise of opinion with someone who willfully misrepresents the other’s position regularly, because there is no defense of his own. Some communications are so beyond reasonable discourse that they deserve nothing but scorn and mockery. **Shodan** ’s repeated assertions on this topic fall within that range. Besides, I still think it’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13358 "2018-05-01T11:43:30Z")
The real cop-hater here is Shodan. He doesn’t want the cops to be seen as friends and helpers. He doesn’t want them to be seen as guardians of law and order. He doesn’t want them to be seen as human beings. He wants that cops keep shooting people in controversial situations, he wants them to act like bullies and instigate violence. He wants them to be seen as the strongest gang of thugs in town. He wants the cops to be seen as enemy who are at war with people. He wants the cops to be hated, ambushed, killed, murdered. Shodan, you are morally responsible for all dead cops. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13359 "2018-05-01T12:55:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > So far, their track record has not been helping them. We hope that the people granted this on-the-ground authority over our lives are honorable and forthright, but recent evidence has dashed this hope quite thoroughly. Only for those dumb enough to believe that a few heavily publicized and distorted incidents prove anything. One has to be fairly reality-challenged to believe that the plural of anecdote is data, but the reality-challenged are not in short supply. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13360 "2018-05-01T13:30:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Only for those dumb enough to believe that a few heavily publicized and distorted incidents prove anything. > > One has to be fairly reality-challenged to believe that the plural of anecdote is data, but the reality-challenged are not in short supply. > > Regards, > Shodan Something has caused data like the fact that about half of all black people report that they personally have been mistreated by police. That’s fact, not fiction. It’s a fact that should greatly trouble police, as that can lead to significantly greater danger both for police and for civilians. What do you think cops should do about that? Nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13361 "2018-05-01T14:29:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Something has caused data like the fact that about half of all black people report that they personally have been mistreated by police. That’s fact, not fiction. It’s a fact that should greatly trouble police, as that can lead to significantly greater danger both for police and for civilians. What do you think cops should do about that? Nothing? That’s easy. Black people are lying. It’s not the cops lying, as evidenced by numerous videos of them lying. It’s those lying liars - black people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=667) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=669)