# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 669
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13362 "2018-05-01T16:44:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Something has caused data like the fact that about half of all black people report that they personally have been mistreated by police. That’s fact, not fiction. It’s a fact that should greatly trouble police, as that can lead to significantly greater danger both for police and for civilians. What do you think cops should do about that? Nothing? Mandatory body cameras. It will make it easier to tell whether anyone is lying and whether different groups of people are in fact treated differently, and hopefully reduce danger to everyone, and increase trust. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13363 "2018-05-01T16:46:19Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s easy. Black people are lying. It’s not the cops lying, as evidenced by numerous videos of them lying. It’s those lying liars - black people. What if it’s a black cop? Are they lying or telling the truth? ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13364 "2018-05-01T16:54:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Mandatory body cameras. It will make it easier to tell whether anyone is lying and whether different groups of people are in fact treated differently, and hopefully reduce danger to everyone, and increase trust. You mean like if a cops shouts that the suspect has a gun and it’s nowhere to be seen in the footage, nobody will claim that the cop is right ? Yea, I think you’re onto something… ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13365 "2018-05-01T16:59:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > What if it’s a black cop? Are they lying or telling the truth? You tell me. I’m not the one maintaining that 50% of the black population of this country are lying liars. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13366 "2018-05-01T17:28:27Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > There was video. Suspect had no gun in hands while running away. He was shot in the back while running way and fell face first. There was no gun. You can actually hear other cops saying there’s no gun whilst kneeling beside him. They did not find a gun till the dug it out of his pants. These are facts. > > Hence, the cop could not have seen this gun. This is logic. > > Since he \*could not have seen \*said gun, then him saying there was a gun was a guess. A correct guess, but a guess nonetheless. > > Kinda like if you and I meet on the street, and I say ‘You have a wallet in your back right pocket!’ If it turns you do have a wallet there, my saying it was \*still \*a guess. “There was no gun”. But there WAS a gun. The cop said, “He had it, like, at me as he came out the window” Since we don’t see the suspect actually coming out of the window does that mean the cop is lying about that, too? I mean, we can’t see it on the video so the cop couldn’t have seen it either. Right? That seems to be how your “logic” works. The cop also said that he had it it his waist band. So, isn’t it possible that the guy had it in his hand as he came out of the window and subsequently put it in his waist band in order to climb the fence? It then fell down his pants leg as he ran. But wait, he didn’t come out of the window. You can’t see it on video so it didn’t happen. I keep forgetting that’s how it works. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13367 "2018-05-01T17:36:26Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > “There was no gun”. But there WAS a gun. The cop said, “He had it, like, at me as he came out the window” Since we don’t see the suspect actually coming out of the window does that mean the cop is lying about that, too? I mean, we can’t see it on the video so the cop couldn’t have seen it either. Right? That seems to be how your “logic” works. The cop also said that he had it it his waist band. So, isn’t it possible that the guy had it in his hand as he came out of the window and subsequently put it in his waist band in order to climb the fence? It then fell down his pants leg as he ran. But wait, he didn’t come out of the window. You can’t see it on video so it didn’t happen. I keep forgetting that’s how it works. Unless the cop is lying about everything, he couldn’t be lying about anything? That’s the best you’ve got? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13368 "2018-05-01T17:39:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This only holds up if you believe the mere possession of a gun warrants being shot. What if the guy legally possessed the gun? This is not a case of “mere possession of a gun”. You are leaving out some pretty significant details, often referred to as “the totality of the circumstances”. I don’t know the law in that specific jurisdiction but, generally speaking, possessing a firearm while in the commission of a felony is a crime, even if possession of the same firearm under otherwise benign circumstances would be legal. In other words, you can’t legally possess a firearm while committing a burglary. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13369 "2018-05-01T17:41:56Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > This is not a case of “mere possession of a gun”. You are leaving out some pretty significant details, often referred to as “the totality of the circumstances”. I don’t know the law in that specific jurisdiction but, generally speaking, possessing a firearm while in the commission of a felony is a crime, even if possession of the same firearm under otherwise benign circumstances would be legal. In other words, you can’t legally possess a firearm while committing a burglary. On a serious note, is this true? If you rob a gas station with your legally owned weapon, you can be charged with “illegal possession of a gun” or whatever the law is as well as the burglary charge? ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13370 "2018-05-01T17:42:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless the cop is lying about everything, he couldn’t be lying about anything? > That’s the best you’ve got? :rolleyes: What evidence is there that he was lying about anything? ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13371 "2018-05-01T17:44:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > On a serious note, is this true? If you rob a gas station with your legally owned weapon, you can be charged with “illegal possession of a gun” or whatever the law is as well as the burglary charge? Yes. Where I live it would be “Possession of a Weapon for an Unlawful Purpose”. Not to be confused with Unlawful Possession of a Weapon or Possession of an Unlawful Weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13372 "2018-05-01T17:46:07Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > What evidence is there that he was lying about anything? I’d tell you…but since you can’t seem to recall what has already been posted on this board more than once, I feel disinclined to tell you something you will probably also “forget”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13373 "2018-05-01T18:17:34Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Yes. Where I live it would be “Possession of a Weapon for an Unlawful Purpose”. Not to be confused with Unlawful Possession of a Weapon or Possession of an Unlawful Weapon. ok, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13374 "2018-05-01T19:00:53Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > What evidence is there that he was lying about anything? Who needs evidence? He’s a cop. Therefore,[ul][li]Everything he says is a lie, unless it is proven to be true.[\*]Everything he says that is proven to be true is also a lie. [/ul][/li]Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13375 "2018-05-01T19:01:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Who needs evidence? He’s a cop. Therefore, > [ul] > [li]Everything he says is a lie, unless it is proven to be true.[/li][li]Everything he says that is proven to be true is also a lie. [/li][/ul] > Regards, > Shodan Not only a straw man, but maybe the laziest straw man I’ve ever seen. Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13376 "2018-05-01T20:06:50Z")
Aren’t you worried about my feelings? Besides, it’s not a strawman. Read the thread. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13377 "2018-05-01T20:08:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not only a straw man, but maybe the laziest straw man I’ve ever seen. Bravo! His strawman is so recycled (literally from the same page) that it’s already been used as horse bedding. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13378 "2018-05-01T20:09:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Aren’t you worried about my feelings? > > Besides, it’s not a strawman. Read the thread. > > Regards, > Shodan If I hurt your feelings, I’m sorry. As for the straw man, I missed the post where someone said that cops are always lying even when they tell the truth (how does that even work?). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13379 "2018-05-01T20:10:40Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13380 "2018-05-01T20:13:17Z")
The best part of this discussion is that police are allowed/expected to lie when talking with suspects. But when they can get in trouble if they tell the truth, all of a sudden they are incapable of lying. Strange. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13381 "2018-05-01T20:43:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As for the straw man, I missed the post where someone said that cops are always lying even when they tell the truth (how does that even work?). As mentioned, read the thread. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=668) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=670)