# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 670
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13382 "2018-05-01T20:44:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As mentioned, read the thread. > > Regards, > Shodan Done, but I couldn’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13383 "2018-05-01T20:47:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As mentioned, read the thread. Now I know why you seem to be a loathsome shitpile. You have no reading comprehension. You only see the singular words that make you hold the worst opinion you can of other people. It must be a little hard to go through life with such a totally binary brain. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13384 "2018-05-02T15:33:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Besides, it’s not a strawman. Bullshit. It’s such a perfect strawman that it could be used as an example of one in the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13385 "2018-05-02T16:31:53Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > You mean like if a cops shouts that the suspect has a gun and it’s nowhere to be seen in the footage, nobody will claim that the cop is right ? > > Yea, I think you’re onto something… Are you still trying to claim that the gun that was found on him didn’t actually exist? It doesn’t really surprise me, in at least one case we have footage of someone reaching for a gun and people still claim that the cops shouldn’t have considered him a threat… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13386 "2018-05-02T16:37:46Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > What evidence is there that he was lying about anything? There isn’t any. The cop’s story is \*consistent \*with the evidence. The “problem” is that it’s only weakly _supported_ by the evidence, and so some people assume that as it’s not been proven true, it must be false. That’s not how the burden of proof works. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13387 "2018-05-02T16:39:18Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Are you still trying to claim that the gun that was found on him didn’t actually exist? It doesn’t really surprise me, in at least one case we have footage of someone reaching for a gun and people still claim that the cops shouldn’t have considered him a threat… You lie about the events, and you lie about what others have said about the events. You lie, and that is all anyone will _ever_ remember about you when it comes to this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13388 "2018-05-02T16:54:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You lie about the events, and you lie about what others have said about the events. You lie, and that is all anyone will _ever_ remember about you when it comes to this topic. Yeah, keep saying that rather than showing that I’m wrong about things. It will make it much easier for you, and those predisposed to assume that all cops are in the wrong will support you. Prejudice is much easier than facts, sadly, and you are living proof of that. There are those in this thread who try to argue honestly, but mostly it;s just a circlejerk now. The thread is supposed to be about _contoversial_ encounters, that is, those where debate about them is necessary. Instead, you and many others just want everyone to agree that the police are automatically wrong rather than considering the issues carefully. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13389 "2018-05-02T17:16:09Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Are you still trying to claim that the gun that was found on him didn’t actually exist? It doesn’t really surprise me, in at least one case we have footage of someone reaching for a gun and people still claim that the cops shouldn’t have considered him a threat… It doesn’t really surprise me that you’re stupid enough to ask this. Sure, the suspect had a gun in his pants. So what ? Nobody is questioning that. I don’t recall that anybody even suggested that the cops planted it. He had a gun, I believe that. OK ? But now tell me this one thing: WAS THE GUN VISIBLE IN THAT FOOTAGE ?! YES OR NO ? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13390 "2018-05-02T18:02:56Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > WAS THE GUN VISIBLE IN THAT FOOTAGE ?! > YES OR NO ? No. What’s your point? The cop claimed to have seen the gun before the filming began, a claim that’s consistent with all the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13391 "2018-05-02T18:22:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. What’s your point? The cop claimed to have seen the gun before the filming began, a claim that’s consistent with all the evidence. OK, let’s stipulate that that is true for the sake of argument. If the gun was in his pants moments later, does that justify shooting him in the back as he runs away? Also, did he threaten anyone with the gun at any point in time? ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13392 "2018-05-02T18:32:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. What’s your point? The cop claimed to have seen the gun before the filming began, a claim that’s consistent with all the evidence. With ALL the evidence ? Yes, all, EXCEPT THAT FILM ! Moron. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13393 "2018-05-02T18:32:26Z")
**Orwell** Unfortunately, cops are allowed to use lethal force to stop a fleeing suspect that they believe is a danger to society. I dont agree with this provision, but it is the law. Whether the cop in this particular case actually saw the gun or not, is probably a worthy debate. but, if you concede that the cop _did know_, then it doesn’t legally matter if he was actually brandishing it - he was fleeing with a gun. Lethal force was justified. Maybe we should delete that provision. Only clear and present danger should justify the use of lethal force. mc ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13394 "2018-05-02T18:36:04Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > With ALL the evidence ? > Yes, all, EXCEPT THAT FILM ! > > Moron. You are leaving out the unimpeachable evidence of the cop’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13395 "2018-05-02T19:33:42Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > **Orwell** > Unfortunately, cops are allowed to use lethal force to stop a fleeing suspect that they believe is a danger to society. I dont agree with this provision, but it is the law. > > Whether the cop in this particular case actually saw the gun or not, is probably a worthy debate. but, if you concede that the cop _did know_, then it doesn’t legally matter if he was actually brandishing it - he was fleeing with a gun. Lethal force was justified. > > Maybe we should delete that provision. Only clear and present danger should justify the use of lethal force. > > mc Not exactly: > [@](#): > > The fleeing suspect would have to pose a significant threat of death or of bodily harm to the officer or to others, according to Friedman and other experts. > > “Unless the fleeing felon is a substantial risk to the life of the police officer or arguably to other people in the community, only then can you use deadly physical force to subdue them,” said Paul Callan, a trial attorney and former New York City prosecutor. [https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/10/us/south-carolina-case-police-deadly-force/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/10/us/south-carolina-case-police-deadly-force/index.html) I didn’t see anything in the video that indicates the suspect was threatening the life of the officer or anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13396 "2018-05-02T19:35:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No. What’s your point? The cop claimed to have seen the gun before the filming began, a claim that’s consistent with all the evidence. When? The video starts with them outside checking out the perimeter when they encounter the suspect. What more could there possibly be? Was the suspect in the window holding it up for them to see prior to them encountering them in the backyard? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13397 "2018-05-02T19:48:33Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > With ALL the evidence ? > Yes, all, EXCEPT THAT FILM ! In what way is the film inconsistent with the claim that the police saw the gun before the film began? > [@](#): > > Moron. I see you have begun signing your posts. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13398 "2018-05-02T19:53:55Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > With ALL the evidence ? > Yes, all, EXCEPT THAT FILM ! > > Moron. The film says nothing at all about whether he had the gun out before the film started. It does not contradict anything the cop said. His statement that the gun was out before the video is consistent with, but not supported by, the video. The claim is, however, supported by the fact that a gun was found in the guys pants. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13399 "2018-05-02T19:56:21Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > OK, let’s stipulate that that is true for the sake of argument. If the gun was in his pants moments later, does that justify shooting him in the back as he runs away? Also, did he threaten anyone with the gun at any point in time? Based on the cop’s statement, which has not yet been refuted, yes and yes. If he was a threat before he ran, he continued to be one as he neither disarmed himself nor surrendered. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13400 "2018-05-02T20:07:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In what way is the film inconsistent with the claim that the police saw the gun before the film began? How does the film prove that he saw the gun before the film began ? > [@](#): > > I see you have begun signing your posts. Yes. > [@](#): > > Regards, > Shodan Moron. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13401 "2018-05-02T20:16:14Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The film says nothing at all about whether he had the gun out before the film started. It does not contradict anything the cop said. His statement that the gun was out before the video is consistent with, but not supported by, the video. > > The claim is, however, supported by the fact that a gun was found in the guys pants. The guy shot says he never had it in his hands as he was running away. Who you going to believe? I wish there was some further evidence that could show whether or not the guy had a gun in his hands when the cop yelled “He’s got a gun!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=669) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=671)