# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 672
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13422 "2018-05-03T16:31:12Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If you want to claim that the guy deserved to be shot, show it. Got anything besides a cop yelling “he’s got a gun!”? Good thing I’ve not claimed that, then. What he deserved is utterly irrelevant. What matters is whether or not it was justified. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13423 "2018-05-03T16:32:31Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Good thing I’ve not claimed that, then. What he deserved is utterly irrelevant. What matters is whether or not it was justified. Fair enough. Do you think the cop was justified in shooting the guy? What evidence led you to this determination? Anything other than the cop said “He has a gun!” ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13424 "2018-05-03T16:59:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It doesn’t. No one claimed it did, so I am not clear on what you are thinking, if anything. Maybe it’s the language barrier, maybe very different time zones. I’m trying to say this: if the film doesn’t support your ( and Steophan’s ) theories, it just doesn’t stop being evidence. However here’s some food for though, some interesting facts I stumbled upon: Finland ( population 5,509,717 ) Between 2003-2013, police fired a gun 122 times. People shot dead by the police since year 2000: 2000; a man with an axe 2009; an armed man trying to kill other person 2010; accidental shooting, victim was a guard 2015; a man with an axe attacking a cop 2016; a gunman resisting arrest 2016; a gunman threatening a cop 2016; a man who was stabbing a woman ( she survived only because of the shots ) 2018; a man shooting and wounding a cop when stopped after speeding None of them were unarmed ( well, the guard probably was ). ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13425 "2018-05-03T17:48:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Fair enough. Do you think the cop was justified in shooting the guy? That’s still the wrong question. The relevant question is “do I believe that he was _not_ justified in shooting”, to whatever level of proof. I think it’s _possible_ he was unjustified, to the extent there should be further investigation. I don’t believe there’s casue to arrest and charge at this point, let alone to say he’s guilty. > [@](#): > > What evidence led you to this determination? Anything other than the cop said “He has a gun!” The claim that he had a gun is a claim that he acted in self defence, and that’s enough to mean that he’s claimed that he’s the victim and should be treated as such. Basically, there’s nowhere near enough evidence to say whether or not it was justified, so we should presume that it was until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13426 "2018-05-03T18:04:50Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I think it’s _possible_ he was unjustified, to the extent there should be further investigation. I’ll take this, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13427 "2018-05-03T20:19:26Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > Maybe it’s the language barrier, maybe very different time zones. I’m trying to say this: if the film doesn’t support your ( and Steophan’s ) theories, it just doesn’t stop being evidence. Yes, of course it’s evidence. But if we are looking for evidence that the cop was lying when he said “he’s got a gun”, it’s not very good evidence, because [list=A][li]It doesn’t cover the whole incident, and [\*]He did have a gun.[/list] [/li] > [@](#): > > However here’s some food for though, some interesting facts I stumbled upon: > > Finland ( population 5,509,717 ) > > Between 2003-2013, police fired a gun 122 times. > > People shot dead by the police since year 2000: > 2000; a man with an axe > 2009; an armed man trying to kill other person > 2010; accidental shooting, victim was a guard > 2015; a man with an axe attacking a cop > 2016; a gunman resisting arrest > 2016; a gunman threatening a cop > 2016; a man who was stabbing a woman ( she survived only because of the shots ) > 2018; a man shooting and wounding a cop when stopped after speeding > > None of them were unarmed ( well, the guard probably was ). The guy who got shot in the incident under discussion was armed, too. Although he didn’t look Finnish, I grant you. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13428 "2018-05-04T00:08:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes, that person appears to be an asshole. Next. Now, now. She was a **Clinton-licking Democrat** asshole. I think that was **LAZombie** ’s key insight. @ **LAZombie** — I hope you, or other Republicans, will answer this: Do you feel a need to call attention to Clinton-licking Democrat assholes because (a) you think they are much less virtuous than Trump-licking Republican assholes, or (b) compared with Republican assholes, the Democrat assholes are rarer and, like sharing a 4-leaf clover, cause for celebration? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13429 "2018-05-04T07:55:44Z")
…so did this guy have a gun concealed in his head? > **[Miami Cop Suspended After Kicking Man in Head on Video](http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/video-shows-miami-cop-kicking-man-in-head-10319164)** > > Earlier today, the City of Miami Police Department issued an ominous statement: Chief Jorge Colina said he'd received a video of an officer clearly violating departmental policy. That cop had been relieved of duty, he reported, adding the department... ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13430 "2018-05-04T12:58:45Z")
I would like someone on the “cops should get the benefit of the doubt” side in this thread to clearly and unambiguously condemn the cop’s actions in that video. And maybe some actual police that are members of this board as well. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13431 "2018-05-04T13:42:07Z")
Yes, that was clearly against policy and wrong. > [@](#): > > …police say they tried to apprehend Suazo after he was allegedly caught driving a blue Jeep Cherokee that had been stolen in Broward County. The cops say Suazo fled, crashed into a wall, and then fled on foot and tried to resist arrest before being tased, but the clip shows Suazo clearly complying with officers’ demands. Can you think of anyone else who should be unambiguously condemned for his actions? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13432 "2018-05-04T13:47:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Can you think of anyone else who should be unambiguously condemned for his actions? > > Regards, > Shodan Sure. The guy should be condemned, arrested, placed on trial, and if found guilty, sent to jail/prison. what he should not be is kicked in the head by a running officer while he is handcuffed face-down on the ground. Notice the police report fails to mention the head kicking. Guess the cops simply forgot to write that in. Without video, I bet people would believe the police report as gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13433 "2018-05-04T13:51:16Z")
Now, how about a statement regarding the other 3 cops who were there, who neither said nor did anything to prevent the kicking, nor did anything afterward about the cops actions that are “clearly against policy and wrong”? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13434 "2018-05-04T14:01:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Can you think of anyone else who should be unambiguously condemned for his actions? > > Regards, > Shodan Hitler? Carrot Top? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13435 "2018-05-04T14:10:23Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Now, how about a statement regarding the other 3 cops who were there, who neither said nor did anything to prevent the kicking, nor did anything afterward about the cops actions that are “clearly against policy and wrong”? We call those “Good Cops”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13436 "2018-05-04T14:13:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure. The guy should be condemned, arrested, placed on trial, and if found guilty, sent to jail/prison. what he should not be is kicked in the head by a running officer while he is handcuffed face-down on the ground. > > Notice the police report fails to mention the head kicking. Guess the cops simply forgot to write that in. Without video, I bet people would believe the police report as gospel. He went on paid leave, for ghod’s sake! How much more punishment do you want to pile on? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13437 "2018-05-04T14:34:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I would like someone on the “cops should get the benefit of the doubt” side in this thread to clearly and unambiguously condemn the cop’s actions in that video. And maybe some actual police that are members of this board as well. Obviously wrong, and possibly criminal. Why would you expect anyone to think differently? This video does not belong in the thread, it’s not controversial in any way, and neither is the response by the police department. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13438 "2018-05-04T14:39:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Now, how about a statement regarding the other 3 cops who were there, who neither said nor did anything to prevent the kicking, nor did anything afterward about the cops actions that are “clearly against policy and wrong”? I’m not sure what they could have done to prevent it, it came out of nowhere, and it is also possible that the ones behind the kicking officer didn’t see exactly what happened. As for what they did afterwards, that is the period we are in now, the investigation is happening, and presumably they will give statements. Unless you know what’s in those statements, it’s impossible to judge them. At worst, based solely on the video, they did nothing wrong but didn’t actively do a (presumably) good thing, if you think they should’ve acted directly against the kicker at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13439 "2018-05-04T14:39:18Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Obviously wrong, and possibly criminal. Why would you expect anyone to think differently? This video does not belong in the thread, it’s not controversial in any way, and neither is the response by the police department. Sure it is. What about the other police who just stood around and let it happen? What about the police report that conveniently left out head kick? You know, the police report that would have been accepted if there was no video of the incident? Why don’t the other cops get suspended for letting that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13440 "2018-05-04T14:50:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure it is. What about the other police who just stood around and let it happen? Ah, once again I feel like we watched different videos. He ran in, kicked him once, and that was it. One cop was already on the ground handcuffing the guy and the others were behind him. What, exactly, do you expect them to have done to stop him? > [@](#): > > What about the police report that conveniently left out head kick? You know, the police report that would have been accepted if there was no video of the incident? Why don’t the other cops get suspended for letting that happen? If you suspened everyone who doesn’t turn in their workmates you’d have no-on left working anywhere. It’s a ridiculous expectation. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13441 "2018-05-04T14:56:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ah, once again I feel like we watched different videos. He ran in, kicked him once, and that was it. One cop was already on the ground handcuffing the guy and the others were behind him. What, exactly, do you expect them to have done to stop him? Starting with screening, to prevent people with aggression issues from getting a badge and a gun. Then training, in order to teach a cop the proper way of interacting with a suspect. Let it be known to your co-workers that you will not tolerate and will report such behavior. > [@](#): > > If you suspened everyone who doesn’t turn in their workmates you’d have no-on left working anywhere. It’s a ridiculous expectation. That’s a bit pessimistic. So, you are saying that everyone everywhere turns a blind eye to assaults in their workplace, and you are okay with that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=671) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=673)