# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 675
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13482 "2018-05-04T23:19:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Not controversial in any way? So you think all the other cops in the video acted just fine? You’re okay with them not reporting the assault by a fellow officer? That’s acceptable, in your opinion? My answer to that isn’t going to change just because a different person asks. If you expect people to turn in their friends and colleagues, under pretty much any circumstances, you’re going to spend your life disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13483 "2018-05-04T23:21:42Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > So it seems that according to Steophan it’s petty to call the police for any crime. But, after the cops have arrived, it’s OK if they kill the suspect. It’s petty to call the cops when no-one’s harmed. It’s fine to kill in self defence. Not only are those views not mutually exclusive, they have almost no bearing on each other. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13484 "2018-05-04T23:44:31Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > My answer to that isn’t going to change just because a different person asks. If you expect people to turn in their friends and colleagues, under pretty much any circumstances, you’re going to spend your life disappointed. It’s perfectly acceptable for police officers to watch crimes being committed and do nothing about it, because there’s just no way to make a change? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13485 "2018-05-05T04:09:26Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Can we get a cop to kick Stephy in the head or did that happen already and that is why he is so fucked up? It’s fear: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20724340&postcount=12437](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20724340&postcount=12437) He’s paralyzed by terror to the point that he praised a convicted murderer (Dunn) who _shot teenagers for playing loud music_: > [@Steophan](#): > > People like Zimmerman, who was trying to prevent further burglaries in his neighbourhood, or Dunn, who wanted the selfish scumbags to stop their antisocial noise pollution, are the sort of people normal people want around them. I just try to remind him, calmly and kindly, that loud music isn’t going to hurt you, and teenagers being rowdy is just normal teenage behavior, and it’s okay out there… most youngsters being rowdy and playing loud music are just regular kids being kids, and not dangerous to you or anyone else. It’s okay, and it’s going to be okay. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13486 "2018-05-05T16:05:02Z")
[Off-duty police officer in California pointed a gun at man buying Mentos candy](https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-police-officer-california-pointed-gun-man/story) Because, you know, pulling a gun on a suspected shoplifter is completely reasonable. He might have had a diet Coke in his pocket. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13487 "2018-05-05T16:34:27Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > [Off-duty police officer in California pointed a gun at man buying Mentos candy](https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-police-officer-california-pointed-gun-man/story) [Fixed link.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-police-officer-california-pointed-gun-man/story?id=54956281) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13488 "2018-05-05T16:54:33Z")
[Woman sues cop who shared pornographic photo on her phone](https://apnews.com/835aef231b6b40cf99654509dd06dce2/Woman-sues-cop-who-shared-pornographic-photo-on-her-phone): > [@](#): > > The Akron Beacon Journal reports the 39-year-old woman is seeking $15 million in a lawsuit filed Thursday against Akron Lt. Brian Simcox and Chief Kenneth Ball. > > The lawsuit says Simcox and other Akron officers detained the woman last September in a parking lot suspecting she was there to buy drugs. Simcox looked through the woman’s phone and found an offensive photo that he copied with his phone and then shared. > > The woman says it’s not her in the photo. > > Simcox was demoted after an investigation over the photo and another incident. A prosecutor declined to file charges. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13489 "2018-05-05T21:22:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s petty to call the cops when no-one’s harmed. It’s fine to kill in self defence. Not only are those views not mutually exclusive, they have almost no bearing on each other. So, it would be petty to call the police about shoplifting? Anyway, away from what ever this particular Steophan trainwreck is… Here’s [a trusted member of our law enforcement community](http://www.fox19.com/story/38114790/ex-judge-sentenced-to-20-years-for-human-trafficking), finally sentenced for using his position as a judge to find and force women, many of them underage, into performing sex acts with him. > [@](#): > > Nolan coerced women, seven of which were under 18, into sex acts, Whaley said. All but two of the 19 victims were addicted to heroin or other opioids. He plied many with drugs and threatened to take them away if they didn’t comply with his sexual demands. > [@](#): > > Nolan would hang out at a local woman’s shelter and volunteer at drug court to meet women addicted to opioids, > [@](#): > > He used threats to call law enforcement and use his connections in the justice system as a former judge. Of course, he doesn’t think that what he did was so bad. > [@](#): > > Nolan read a statement in court where he asked for forgiveness from God, his victims and his family. > > He asked for probation and said he could still contribute to society. > > “I’m so sorry for my crimes, even though I’m a first offender with a low-risk to re-offend,” Nolan said. > > Nolan promised to get treatment. And of course, taking responsibility for his actions. > [@](#): > > Nolan fired his attorney, tried to withdraw his guilty plea, accused the judge’s family of having a vendetta against him, asked the judge to recuse herself, then asked to represent himself. Just in case you were wondering political affiliation: > [@](#): > > His brash style made him one of the more visible campaigners for President Trump in Northern Kentucky, though since his arrest many in the campaign publicly questioned his claim of heading the campaign in Campbell County. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13490 "2018-05-05T22:36:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, it would be petty to call the police about shoplifting? If you don’t work for the shop, yes. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13491 "2018-05-05T22:57:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you don’t work for the shop, yes. But, if you do work at that shop, then you shouldn’t call attention to your co-worker stealing, right? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13492 "2018-05-05T23:24:33Z")
…the NY Sergeants Benevolent Association had this to say in response to a tweet from the The Civilian Complaint Review Board who made a “may the fourth be with you” joke about the importance of the Fourth Amendment: > [@](#): > > You are all a disgrace. You sit on your ass and target the NYPD all while growing up on the nipple of what’s easy. You have no clue what a NYPD officer does yet target us and disparage our integrity. One day you will dial 911 when evil is at your door and thank god for the NYPD. > > > NYC CCRB @CCRB\_NYC ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13493 "2018-05-05T23:34:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, if you do work at that shop, then you shouldn’t call attention to your co-worker stealing, right? Depends. If you want to do what is officially right, at the expense of friendships and your job, go for it. But don’t expect managers to thank someone who’s not trustworthy, they’ll be wondering what else you’ll be reporting and to who. Sometimes blowing the whistle is necessary. Often, it just fucks up the whistleblower for little to no gain. I’m not making a moral point, I’m observing what actually happens. Something that, for some reason, people in this thread seem disinclined to do, instead treating every action and interaction as though it happens in a vacuum, with no complications, no fallout, just a simple moral decision that could be computed with an algorithm. Sadly, life is messy, and until people understand that they’ll be unable to work towards practical solutions to any problems, they’ll just sit there wondering why people aren’t perfectly moral robots. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13494 "2018-05-05T23:56:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Depends. If you want to do what is officially right, at the expense of friendships and your job, go for it. But don’t expect managers to thank someone who’s not trustworthy, they’ll be wondering what else you’ll be reporting and to who. You work at some shitty places, with some shitty people, and you are part of the problem. I’ve been an employee, and I’ve been a manager, and I am now a business owner. You are flat out wrong to say that managers do not respect people who are honest. I don’t wonder who else they are reporting to, reporting what? And I guess there is something to that. If I, as a manager, and up to shady shit, then I may not like people that call people out on shady shit. As I have actually been the cause of at least 2 general managers losing their jobs, (with one of them having charges pressed, though I don’t know how it turned out) because they were stealing, I guess I can see you point. If you are stuck with no choice but to work for shitty people who are corrupt and stealing, and who will punish you for doing the right thing, then I can see turning a blind eye towards some behaviors. But, in the case that that analogies to what we are talking about, police assaulting people and other cops just looking on and lying in their reports to cover for them, that means that you are saying that the entire police department is corrupt, from the top down. Even more so, as we are not talking about shoplifting, but assault. I don’t know that I agree with that. > [@](#): > > Sometimes blowing the whistle is necessary. Often, it just fucks up the whistleblower for little to no gain. I’m not making a moral point, I’m observing what actually happens. Something that, for some reason, people in this thread seem disinclined to do, instead treating every action and interaction as though it happens in a vacuum, with no complications, no fallout, just a simple moral decision that could be computed with an algorithm. Sadly, life is messy, and until people understand that they’ll be unable to work towards practical solutions to any problems, they’ll just sit there wondering why people aren’t perfectly moral robots. Yeah, and sometimes they affect you directly. I was a cook for many years in many restaurants. One thing that I certainly did do was to catch and call out servers for stealing. Once the servers were called out for stealing, miraculously, food cost would fall in line, and cooks would get a raise. You are the one treating it as if it’s just in a vacuum with no issues. Other employees stealing lowers morale, it increases employee theft if it goes unchecked. It means lower wages, higher prices, eventually fewer customers and possibly going out of business. And that is talking about stealing. We are in this case, actually talking about assault. You really think that physical violence should be tolerated in the workplace? You see someone give a beat down to another employee, and you aren’t going to report that? Yeah, you would also be the cop that covers for the other cop. “Oh shit, you shot that guy for no reason. Here’s a gun to plant on him, and I’ll say that I saw him point it at you.” Do you think that that would be acceptable behavior? From what you are saying here, I think that you do, and if that is the case you are a truly shitty person, and the world is a worse place for your existence. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13495 "2018-05-06T01:00:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You work at some shitty places, with some shitty people, and you are part of the problem. I live in the real world. Look up what happens to whistleblowers sometime, it quite often isn’t pretty. Anyway, no-one - not one single person - follows every law and regulation, whether at work or in their day to day life. While you’re focussing on the waiter who steals a small amount of money, the cook or the manager is figuring out how best to serve out of date, potentially dangerous food, or how to cover up flaws when the inspectors come round. Only one of those things is harmful, and it’s not the petty theft. To go back to the cops thing. Should career criminals be getting their heads kicked in? Obviously not, and those caught doing it should be punished appropriately. But a few bruises is far less harm than they do to people, and yet it’s what is more focussed on. Very few cops are going to want to remove someone from their team for doing that, when it means they’ll have to work harder and get more hassle from their other colleagues (and probably superiors). It’s not _right_, no, but it’s normal behaviour, and it’s a minor problem. Drop the hypocrisy and get your priorities sorted. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13496 "2018-05-06T08:24:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Anyway, no-one - not one single person - follows every law and regulation, whether at work or in their day to day life. Yeah, I’m I’m tying people’s hands behind their backs and kicking them in the head all the time. It’s like not crossing the street at the light–a victimless crime. Everyone is aware that \*\*Steophan \*\*is a sociopath, right? ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13497 "2018-05-06T08:27:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I live in the real world. Look up what happens to whistleblowers sometime, it quite often isn’t pretty. What do you do if there’s a whistleblower at your working place? You call him a rat and be hostile, so he’ll never do it again ? Or show him respect for being an honest person, so he’ll keep weeding out the crime ? > [@](#): > > Anyway, no-one - not one single person - follows every law and regulation, whether at work or in their day to day life. IF I break laws in my everyday life, I have no idea what they are. I don’t steal, I don’t beat up people, I don’t even jaywalk. Same with all people I know ( except jaywalking… ). However, you apparently are a repeat offender. > [@](#): > > While you’re focussing on the waiter who steals a small amount of money, the cook or the manager is figuring out how best to serve out of date, potentially dangerous food, or how to cover up flaws when the inspectors come round. Only one of those things is harmful, and it’s not the petty theft. What he hell are you talking about ? Where do you work and with what kind of people ? Nothing that sort happens where I work. Also who says a whistleblower can focus only one thing. > [@](#): > > To go back to the cops thing. Should career criminals be getting their heads kicked in? Obviously not, and those caught doing it should be punished appropriately. And how would they get caught without those loathsome snitches ratting them out ? > [@](#): > > But a few bruises is far less harm than they do to people, and yet it’s what is more focussed on. So what’s your take on crimes where the victim isn’t even aware it happened ? You know, like embezzling from a demented person, or drug-raping somebody. Would it be petty to inform the cops about these, 'cause who actually got harmed there ? > [@](#): > > Very few cops are going to want to remove someone from their team for doing that, when it means they’ll have to work harder and get more hassle from their other colleagues (and probably superiors). It’s not _right_, no, but it’s normal behaviour, and it’s a minor problem. Why should a good cop be nervous about who’s going to be a whistleblower. I don’t care if some of my co-workers is a ‘rat’, because he’ll never have anything on me. However, if there’s a thief, I don’t want HIM around. > [@](#): > > Drop the hypocrisy and get your priorities sorted. I’d rather have my priorities right. And of all those around me. But I wouldn’t want to have your kind around me, because you are a part of the problem. You are an enabler, one cog in a broken system that will only get worse with people like you. You are stupid and corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13498 "2018-05-06T08:48:51Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > IF I break laws in my everyday life, I have no idea what they are. You’re either a liar or an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13499 "2018-05-06T08:51:57Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You’re either a liar or an idiot. Or not a career criminal like yourself. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13500 "2018-05-06T08:56:01Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You’re either a liar or an idiot. I guess that I’m an idiot then. Because apparently obeying the laws makes a person an idiot in your world. And THAT was your take on the post that I composed more than an hour. Yes, I guess I’m an idiot for expecting more. Edit. could you list here the laws YOU break on a daily basis ? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13501 "2018-05-06T09:05:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You’re either a liar or an idiot. Whereas you manage both. Hey, did you ever apologize for repeatedly and blatantly lying about the content of people’s posts? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=674) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=676)