# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 682
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13622 "2018-05-28T20:42:07Z")
[https://www.buzzfeed.com/talalansari/-video-shows-police-officer-punching-a-woman-in?utm\_term=.ucmmnV0DqA#.ucmmnV0DqA](https://www.buzzfeed.com/talalansari/-video-shows-police-officer-punching-a-woman-in?utm_term=.ucmmnV0DqA#.ucmmnV0DqA) Multiple cops against one lady. What fucking heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13623 "2018-05-28T23:53:22Z")
She’s been charged with assault on a police officer. Probably that was when she resisted arrest. Did you see the cop punch her in the head, three times? She was already down, face mashed into the sand, and the other cop holding her legs down. Not cool. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13624 "2018-05-29T00:28:36Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > She’s been charged with assault on a police officer. Probably that was when she resisted arrest. Did you see the cop punch her in the head, three times? She was already down, face mashed into the sand, and the other cop holding her legs down. Not cool. SOP for cops seems to be if they use force, to automatically charge the victim with resisting. Tried to not get punched? Resisting! Try to breathe? Resisting? Don’t understand what’s being asked of you? Resisting! That’s why you can’t trust the FBI’s annual report of law enforcement officers assaulted ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13625 "2018-05-29T12:59:38Z")
Yale graduate student Sarah Braasch calls the cops when her black dorm-mate falls asleep while studying. It turns out that a few months before, Braasch called the cops when another black Yale student couldn’t find the common room where he was meeting the same black woman. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/grade-point/wp/2018/05/10/a-black-yale-student-fell-asleep-in-her-dorms-common-room-a-white-student-called-police/](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/grade-point/wp/2018/05/10/a-black-yale-student-fell-asleep-in-her-dorms-common-room-a-white-student-called-police/) Thatnpiece has a shocking list of things black people have done to trigger white desire to put them in their place and remind them they shouldn’t get comfortable in white spaces, sometimes with the threat of deadly force by the state— > [@](#): > > Other entrants include: couponing while black, graduating too boisterously while black, waiting for a school bus while black, throwing a kindergarten temper tantrum while black, drinking iced tea while black, waiting at Starbucks while black, AirBnB’ing while black, shopping for underwear while black, having a loud conversation while black, golfing too slowly while black, buying clothes at Barney’s while black, or Macy’s, or Nordstrom Rack, getting locked out of your own home while black, going to the gym while black, asking for the Waffle House corporate number while black and reading C.S. Lewis while black, among others. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13626 "2018-05-29T18:49:21Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13627 "2018-05-29T18:56:16Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > And why you should trust random incomplete FB video postings. Like others have said, if you spit on cops and kick them in the nuts, its probably not going to end well. The PD says they are going to release body cam vids that support the officers. Why not wait and see before passing judgment? Are you saying that cops are justified in meting out extrajudicial punishment if they were disrespected? If physical force is required to restrain a person, that is one thing. But once that is accomplished, anything further is just the cop getting his revenge for someone daring to defy him. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13628 "2018-05-29T20:53:43Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > SOP for cops seems to be if they use force, to automatically charge the victim with resisting. Tried to not get punched? Resisting! Try to breathe? Resisting? Don’t understand what’s being asked of you? Resisting! > > That’s why you can’t trust the FBI’s annual report of law enforcement officers assaulted The operative word here is “assault”, which, AIUI, means getting up in someone’s business. There is no implication of physical contact with assault. So, if an officer says, “_ **Comply!** _” and the other person says “no” (or “_ **No!** _”, either way), they have failed to not get up in the officer’s business and can be charged with assault. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13629 "2018-05-29T21:49:26Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The operative word here is “assault”, which, AIUI, means getting up in someone’s business. There is no implication of physical contact with assault. So, if an officer says, “_ **Comply!** _” and the other person says “no” (or “_ **No!** _”, either way), they have failed to not get up in the officer’s business and can be charged with assault. Assault is not “getting up in someone’s business.” Assault is attempted battery. Battery is an unwanted touch. So assault is an attempted unwanted touch. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13630 "2018-05-29T22:19:03Z")
WTF is “getting up in someone’s business” anyway? Is that like the Brits taking a piss or someone’s piss or whatever they go on about? ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13631 "2018-05-30T19:38:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Are you saying that cops are justified in meting out extrajudicial punishment if they were disrespected? > > If physical force is required to restrain a person, that is one thing. But once that is accomplished, anything further is just the cop getting his revenge for someone daring to defy him. No, I am not saying that. Getting kicked in the nuts and spit on is not mere disrespect, its assault. The video is an incomplete record of what happened yet everyone is prepared to pass judgement That’s what I’m saying. Maybe the cops were wrong but there’s nothing in the video that leads that being the only possible conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13632 "2018-05-30T19:55:20Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > No, I am not saying that. Getting kicked in the nuts and spit on is not mere disrespect, its assault. The video is an incomplete record of what happened yet everyone is prepared to pass judgement That’s what I’m saying. Maybe the cops were wrong but there’s nothing in the video that leads that being the only possible conclusion. Then charge them with assault. That’s fine, most likely, the cop’s word will be believed without any video. If, instead, you punch them in the face because they kicked you in the nuts or spit on you, then you are exacting revenge. That is not the cop’s job. It doesn’t matter what lead up to it. She could have slaughtered the cop’s entire family in front of him, and it is still not his job to punch her in the face. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13633 "2018-05-30T21:29:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Then charge them with assault. That’s fine, most likely, the cop’s word will be believed without any video. > > If, instead, you punch them in the face because they kicked you in the nuts or spit on you, then you are exacting revenge. That is not the cop’s job. > > It doesn’t matter what lead up to it. She could have slaughtered the cop’s entire family in front of him, and it is still not his job to punch her in the face. It is worse than not his job. Beating up suspects does not earn the police respect. It earns them animosity. The more we hear about officers’ dickish behavior, the less sympathy we generally feel for them. They are creating tension in many of the communities they serve, which is exactly the opposite of what most of us want them to be doing. Just because it is a difficult job is no excuse for making it harder for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13634 "2018-05-30T21:59:37Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It is worse than not his job. Beating up suspects does not earn the police respect. It earns them animosity. The more we hear about officers’ dickish behavior, the less sympathy we generally feel for them. They are creating tension in many of the communities they serve, which is exactly the opposite of what most of us want them to be doing. Just because it is a difficult job is no excuse for making it harder for everyone. Agreed, assaulting anyone is never anyone’s job unless it explicitly is. If there is someone firing a gun into a crowd, then the cop’s job is to use any and all measures necessary against that person to stop them from firing into the crowd. Outside of times when compliance is a necessary public safety issue, and that requires use of force, it never is their job. And if you assault someone when it’s not your job, you are just assaulting them. Absolutely agree that these cops are putting themselves and their colleagues in danger. I hear about these cop ambushes from time to time, where someone just walks up and blows a cop or two away before they get a chance to react. Now, the bulk of the blame for that goes to the person who pulled the trigger, but the cops who disrespect the communities they serve share a large part of that blame as well. If you are a bad cop, then you might as well have pulled the trigger on your colleagues. If you help to cover for bad cops, then you assisted in the murder of your colleagues. Violence against police does not exist in a vacuum, it is a reaction to the treatment the police dole out to their communities. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13635 "2018-05-30T22:09:30Z")
If you cover for bad cops, you’re just another bad cop. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13636 "2018-05-30T23:39:11Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It is worse than not his job. Beating up suspects does not earn the police respect. It earns them animosity. I think a little less of the cops now than I did a week ago. A whole lotta people were similarly affected by this news story. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13637 "2018-05-31T14:10:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Then charge them with assault. That’s fine, most likely, the cop’s word will be believed without any video. > > If, instead, you punch them in the face because they kicked you in the nuts or spit on you, then you are exacting revenge. That is not the cop’s job. > > It doesn’t matter what lead up to it. She could have slaughtered the cop’s entire family in front of him, and it is still not his job to punch her in the face. What world do you live in? Are cops supposed to take getting kicked an the nuts and spit on in stride and then ever-so-gently put the cuffs on the person while saying “pretty please”? If someone assaults an officer and resists he has every right to use force to take that person into custody. It DOES matter what led up to it. That is what is called “totality of circumstances”. It IS his job. If you look at the body cam video you’ll see that she was the first one to go hands on by pushing the officer away. Is it written somewhere that strikes to the face and head by police are unlawful or against policy? It is illegal for an underage person to possess alcohol in a public place in NJ. The fact that she wasn’t drinking has nothing to do with it. As usual, the suspect determined what the cops’ actions were. They were going to pour out the booze and, most likely, move on or possibly write a ticket. If an officer has a reasonable suspicion that you may be in violation of the law he has the right to ask you to identify yourself and you are required to do so. If you don’t, you are subject to arrest for Obstruction. They gave this female every chance to comply. She refused and suffered the consequences. This doesn’t look like a revenge beating to me. Far from it. The cops behaved professionally throughout the encounter. It looks like a use of a reasonable amount of force used against a clearly resisting subject. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13638 "2018-05-31T14:24:46Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Is it written somewhere that strikes to the face and head by police are unlawful or against policy? I find it sad that you need a written policy before you would think a cop punching people in the face is wrong. sad. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13639 "2018-05-31T14:25:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Then charge them with assault. That’s fine, most likely, the cop’s word will be believed without any video. > > If, instead, you punch them in the face because they kicked you in the nuts or spit on you, then you are exacting revenge. That is not the cop’s job. > > It doesn’t matter what lead up to it. She could have slaughtered the cop’s entire family in front of him, and it is still not his job to punch her in the face. What world do you live in? Are cops supposed to take getting kicked an the nuts and spit on in stride and then ever-so-gently put the cuffs on the person while saying “pretty please”? If someone assaults an officer and resists he has every right to use force to take that person into custody. It DOES matter what led up to it. That is what is called “totality of circumstances”. It IS his job. If you look at the body cam video you’ll see that she was the first one to go hands on by pushing the officer away. Is it written somewhere that strikes to the face and head by police are unlawful or against policy? It is illegal for an underage person to possess alcohol in a public place in NJ. The fact that she wasn’t drinking has nothing to do with it. As usual, the suspect determined what the cops’ actions were. They were going to pour out the booze and, most likely, move on or possibly write a ticket. If an officer has a reasonable suspicion that you may be in violation of the law he has the right to ask you to identify yourself and you are required to do so. If you don’t, you are subject to arrest for Obstruction. They gave this female every chance to comply. She refused and suffered the consequences. This doesn’t look like a revenge beating to me. Far from it. The cops behaved professionally throughout the encounter. It looks like a use of a reasonable amount of force used against a clearly resisting subject. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13640 "2018-05-31T16:23:20Z")
I live in a world where I expect a cop to use not a scintilla more of force than is absolutely necessary to do his job. I don’t care how much pain he is in or how insulted or disrespected he feels or how angry he is. It is the job of a court to decide what punishment or retribution society will impose. A cop gets zero margin to take revenge. If that means he has to endure being spat on without reacting then so be it. If that means getting shot ether than mistakenly shooting an unarmed person then so be it. That’s his job. I expect no less from anyone authorized to use force, deadly or not, in my name. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13641 "2018-05-31T16:37:45Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > What world do you live in? Are cops supposed to take getting kicked an the nuts and spit on in stride and then ever-so-gently put the cuffs on the person while saying “pretty please”? If someone assaults an officer and resists he has every right to use force to take that person into custody. It DOES matter what led up to it. That is what is called “totality of circumstances”. It IS his job. If you look at the body cam video you’ll see that she was the first one to go hands on by pushing the officer away. Is it written somewhere that strikes to the face and head by police are unlawful or against policy? > > It is illegal for an underage person to possess alcohol in a public place in NJ. The fact that she wasn’t drinking has nothing to do with it. As usual, the suspect determined what the cops’ actions were. They were going to pour out the booze and, most likely, move on or possibly write a ticket. > > If an officer has a reasonable suspicion that you may be in violation of the law he has the right to ask you to identify yourself and you are required to do so. If you don’t, you are subject to arrest for Obstruction. They gave this female every chance to comply. She refused and suffered the consequences. This doesn’t look like a revenge beating to me. Far from it. The cops behaved professionally throughout the encounter. It looks like a use of a reasonable amount of force used against a clearly resisting subject. I live in a world full of petty vindictive people who would mete out extrajudicial punishment because they can. I live in a world where people like yourself not only allow this, but applaud it. I do fully realize that I live in a world where the extrajudicial penalty for suspected underage drinking is being punched in the face by a cop. I am simply describing the world in all of its faults. If you desire to justify those faults, that is your choice, you choose to make the world a shitier place to live in, both for yourself, and those around you. In this, you are not alone, you have plenty of people who prefer to get the last hit in, than to end the fight. Plenty of company in those who prefer to escalate than to avoid violence. You will never be alone when you join in with those who cheer on authority figures beating up women for the crime of disrespecting their authority. At the time of the video, the “clearly resisting” is a matter of opinion. Looked liked she was just resisting the officer’s fist with her face. The only “resistance” that she put up, other than passing the breathalyzer, which probably really pissed off the cop, was a slight raising of her hands as he came at her. I did not see in the video where she kicked him in the nuts or spit on him, unless that was the part of the video that is hard to make out because he is dragging her face in the sand. His actions are out of anger, not out of justice, not out of trying to control. He was beating her because he was angry at her, probably the same way he beats his wife when he gets home and he’s angry with her because dinner’s not on the table yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=681) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=683)