# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 684
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13662 "2018-05-31T21:33:52Z")
This isn’t just about the individual cops – do law enforcement systems and institutions teach de-escalation, and discourage unnecessary escalation? Is escalation ever punished? Are they taught that force is an appropriate response to non-threatening disrespect? Are they taught always to back up their fellow cops, even if they disagree? Are they taught never to “snitch” on their fellow cops? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13663 "2018-05-31T22:00:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This isn’t just about the individual cops … Except, it also kind of is. Or maybe very much is. In another current Pit thread, there is an ugly story about a very ugly police department (also in New Jersey, but way up the other way). That story mentions an incident of the local police department doing a wink-wink-nudge-nudge-know-what-I-mean over a teen kegger. Which is a big part of the problem. Wildwood Beach looked like it was fairly large and non-vacant, yet these two semi-officers descended upon this one spot, for reasons that are not made clear, and started harassing these two lasses. My point is that the law is, by requirement, impartial: anyone in violation is in violation. However, it must be enforced by humans, who are rather the very opposite of impartial. They might let this one thing over here slide, but that other more trivial thing might get someone’s head caved in. Because, chemistry, I guess. If an officer responds to a person well, they might get a warning, but if that other person gets them a hair up their all, a chunk of hell could break loose (or maybe all of it). It is really not possible to manage the arbitrary favoritism issue directly. It is an innate human trait, and the instances where a pass is given are barely noteworthy in the record. The only way to rein in favoritism is to simply rein in the police. Give them less power, so that there is less for them to abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13664 "2018-06-01T07:00:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, you are right, a cop can walk up to you, tell you to strip naked and jump up and down on one foot, and if you don’t, you’re the one who is in the wrong. If you refuse, the cop can arrest you. If you are surprised by the cop arresting you because you refused to strip naked and jump up and down on one foot, and do not instantly comply, then they can cause as much harm to you as they care to, and charge you with resisting arrest for their efforts. You may enjoy living in such a world, most of us do not. I guess you missed the part where **Shodan** said you should obey a **lawful** order. That said, the most sensible response to being given such an illegal order by the police would be to obey, sue afterwards, and enjoy living off the millions you recieve for a few minutes of humiliation. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13665 "2018-06-01T09:46:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I guess you missed the part where **Shodan** said you should obey a **lawful** order. That said, the most sensible response to being given such an illegal order by the police would be to obey, sue afterwards, and enjoy living off the millions you recieve for a few minutes of humiliation. How about if a cop starts kicking your head ? Or starts shooting at you ? You just stay there and take it all passively while grinning when you think all the money you’ll get if you will survive ? ( But be sure that the cop isn’t afraid while doing that or you won’t get a dime ) Steophan, you have lost all your credibility in this thread long ago. Now go away. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13666 "2018-06-01T10:04:23Z")
Just stop responding and put him on ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13667 "2018-06-01T12:32:20Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > How about if a cop starts kicking your head ? Or starts shooting at you ? You just stay there and take it all passively while grinning when you think all the money you’ll get if you will survive ? ( But be sure that the cop isn’t afraid while doing that or you won’t get a dime ) If they start doing that then basically the only option is to put up with it and challenge it later, as they are armed and have backup. What do you think fighting back could ever achieve? It is admittedly sad that it has to be this way, but if people could be trusted to only resist malicious and unlawful police action then it wouldn’t need to be like this. This thread proves that the vast majority of “resistance” is guilty people trying to avoid arrest. > [@](#): > > Steophan, you have lost all your credibility in this thread long ago. Now go away. no u ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13668 "2018-06-01T12:41:43Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I guess you missed the part where **Shodan** said you should obey a **lawful** order. That said, the most sensible response to being given such an illegal order by the police would be to obey, sue afterwards, and enjoy living off the millions you recieve for a few minutes of humiliation. So you are saying one should actually obey any and all orders from a cop, whether legal or illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13669 "2018-06-01T12:45:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > She was resisting the lawful order of a police officer. > > Most people, apart from you and, apparently, this teenage bitch-child, grow out of the “you aren’t the boss of me” stage in early childhood. Mature adults - that is, people who aren’t like you and have advanced beyond the toddler phase - recognize that we live in a society, and that other people also live in that society, and that the other people have decided that certain forms of actions are acceptable and others are not. We have codified those decisions into the form of “laws”. Those “laws” are binding on everybody - not just those who want to be bound by them, but everyone who lives in the society. > > Unfortunately, there are people like this spoiled tantrum princess and you, who think that they get to decide if they get to live in the society and enjoy its benefits, but can decide on a case-by-case basis if they will obey the rules. (Obviously the case where the rules will apply is when it comes to other people, and not when it comes to the princesses.) Society won’t work if that happens - if people can get away with breaking or ignoring the rules by pitching a fit, things won’t go smoothly. > > So we have appointed people to enforce the rules. We call those people “police”. These “police” go around looking for people who break the rules, and try to stop them. Of course the “police” do other things, but given your obvious mental limitations, I will try to dumb it down to your level. > > Now one of those rules is that underage people may not possess alcohol. Obviously this is not one of the major rules. It isn’t like murder, or robbery, or crossing a rhesus monkey with a flatulent hyena and letting him post on the SDMB, as appears to have happened in your case, but it is a rule nonetheless. So the “police” ordered her to stop doing it. > > Here’s a really, really advanced concept - if the police give you a lawful order, then in that situation he really is the boss of you. You do have to do it. You don’t get to say No or walk away or mouth off or spit on him or push him or anything like that. You have to do what he says, because he is speaking and acting as the representative of all the rest of us, who don’t give two toots on a tin trumpet about how fucking special you are. > > So if you say No or walk away or mouth off or spit on him, he is authorized to arrest you. If you resist, he is authorized to use reasonable force to make you submit to the arrest. > > And that is OK with the rest of us. That’s the point that you need to try to fit into the five hundred cubic centimeters of raw sewage atop your brain stem, if possible. Normal rational grown-ups are not like you. We understand the need for public order. And when some dim bulb bimbo complains that she got a smack in the sneezer when she refused a police order and spit on him and kicked him in the nuts, we don’t particularly care. > > Now I realize that you don’t really understand the situation at all, and this is all recreational fapping and moral outrage because a story on the Internet triggered four of your available ten neurons, but look on this as an opportunity - you might be able to advance your understanding beyond that of a three-year-old enraged because grown-ups expect him to use the potty like a big boy. > > You might not, too, but surprise us. > > Regards, > Shodan You know, it’s possible to agree with most of what you say, while still disagreeing that punching a suspect in the face several times is a wrong way to subdue them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13670 "2018-06-01T12:48:40Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If what you want is a police state, where citizens only have the rights that the police allow them to have, then your screed that I just snipped out of there is very appropriate. Very, “You Must Obey”. > > Yeah, you are right, a cop can walk up to you, tell you to strip naked and jump up and down on one foot, and if you don’t, you’re the one who is in the wrong. As I mentioned, the product of mental disease or defect. You didn’t surprise us. Too bad. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13671 "2018-06-01T14:15:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So you are saying one should actually obey any and all orders from a cop, whether legal or illegal? Ultimately yes, but for very different reasons. One should obey a legal order because it’s bothe legally and morally the right thing to do, as an effective police force is a necessary thing for a functioning society. One should obey the illegal order if it’s better for your self preservation, and deal with it in court later. That changes if the order is to harm yourself or another, which should be obvious and is something I’ve said before on here. The other issue is that for the most part, you as an ordinary citizen don’t actually know whether the order is legal. Sometimes it can be so unclear that it has to go through several levels of appeals to higher courts to find out. This thread, again, proves how true this is. The confidence with which people state that a particular action is illegal only for multiple courts to find otherwise shows that quite clearly.= ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13672 "2018-06-01T14:16:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Police bodycam footage of a woman who was punched in the head by an officer on a beach in the US shows she was told “you’re about to get dropped” and slammed to the ground after refusing to tell him her surname. > > Emily Weinman, 20, of Philadelphia, was shown being struck while held down on the sand during the incident on Saturday in New Jersey, in video taken by a bystander that emerged this week. > > The footage did not show what led to the arrest but Ernie Troiano Jr, the mayor of Wildwood, where the incident occurred, alleged in comments to the Philadelphia Inquirer that Weinman was the “aggressor” and that body camera footage would show officers being insulted and spat on. > > However, the footage released by Wildwood police does not show Weinman insulting officers or spitting at them until she has been pinned down. She has claimed she was spitting out sand that was in her mouth. > **[US police officer who punched woman told her 'you're about to get dropped'](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/01/police-officer-woman-beach-punched-new-jersey-emily-weinman)** > > Bodycam films moment when Emily Weinman was punched in head by New Jersey officer ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13673 "2018-06-01T14:23:53Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [US police officer who punched woman told her 'you're about to get dropped' | New Jersey | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/01/police-officer-woman-beach-punched-new-jersey-emily-weinman) That video clearly shows someone resisting arrest. That’s after refusing to identify herself. _Even if_ the cop’s actions were wrong, and I doubt many people seeing that body cam footage would think they were, she was the one who escalated things by refusing the officer’s _polite_ instructions to give her name, to not move away, and then fighting back when being cuffed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13674 "2018-06-01T14:30:41Z")
That brutality was entirely unnecessary, and it’s entirely reasonable to criticize unnecessary brutality. Criticize not 100% perfectly complying with a cop’s verbal instructions too, if you want, but unnecessary brutality is much, much worse, morally speaking, then not 100% perfectly complying with a cop’s verbal instructions. That’s really the key part of this and so many others of these incidents. People should comply with the instructions of police officers, but simply not complying, in a way that’s non-violent and presents no threat to anyone at all, doesn’t justify brutalizing a young girl. Brutalizing a young girl for no good reason is much, much worse than a non-violent retreat from and failure to answer questions from a cop. This isn’t directed at you, **Steophan** , since I recognize that your unthinking terror of young people doing terrible things like playing loud music (to the point that you praised a convicted murderer who shot at fleeing teenagers as the type of person people should want as their neighbor) renders you incapable of reasonable judgment on situations like these, so no need to reply. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13675 "2018-06-01T14:30:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ultimately yes, but for very different reasons. One should obey a legal order because it’s bothe legally and morally the right thing to do, as an effective police force is a necessary thing for a functioning society. One should obey the illegal order if it’s better for your self preservation, and deal with it in court later. That changes if the order is to harm yourself or another, which should be obvious and is something I’ve said before on here. > > The other issue is that for the most part, you as an ordinary citizen don’t actually know whether the order is legal. Sometimes it can be so unclear that it has to go through several levels of appeals to higher courts to find out. This thread, again, proves how true this is. The confidence with which people state that a particular action is illegal only for multiple courts to find otherwise shows that quite clearly.= Exactly. You are advocating that a person do anything and everything that a cop might tell them to do, without resisting. What about that guy that suffered a painful roadside anal cavity search? I’m sure it was harmful to him. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13676 "2018-06-01T14:45:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That brutality was entirely unnecessary, and it’s entirely reasonable to criticize unnecessary brutality. Criticize not 100% perfectly complying with a cop’s verbal instructions too, if you want, but unnecessary brutality is much, much worse, morally speaking, then not 100% perfectly complying with a cop’s verbal instructions. > > That’s really the key part of this and so many others of these incidents. People should comply with the instructions of police officers, but simply not complying, in a way that’s non-violent and presents no threat to anyone at all, doesn’t justify brutalizing a young girl. Brutalizing a young girl for no good reason is much, much worse than a non-violent retreat from and failure to answer questions from a cop. “Brutality” is such an absurd overstament of what happened there that I don’t think you can possibly be serious. She presented a threat when she fought back, that is not an issue that should be disputed as we literally have video footage that proves it, but I know what people here tend to think of video proof that disputes their preconceptions… So, the cops had every right to use force to stop her fighting back and subdue her. Until you accept that, there’s no possibility of meaningful debate, as you are starting from false premises. I’m not saying the cops did absolutely nothing wrong, I’m saying that _at worst_ they used slightly more force than strictly necessary. From the moment she refused to give her name, it was clear she was not going to do as she was required to do without being forced. And giving your name to the cops is a requirement, as is accepting a short detention. Even if it cuts into your sunbathing time. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13677 "2018-06-01T14:51:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > “Brutality” is such an absurd overstament of what happened there that I don’t think you can possibly be serious. She presented a threat when she fought back, that is not an issue that should be disputed as we literally have video footage that proves it, but I know what people here tend to think of video proof that disputes their preconceptions… So, the cops had every right to use force to stop her fighting back and subdue her. Until you accept that, there’s no possibility of meaningful debate, as you are starting from false premises. > > I’m not saying the cops did absolutely nothing wrong, I’m saying that _at worst_ they used slightly more force than strictly necessary. From the moment she refused to give her name, it was clear she was not going to do as she was required to do without being forced. And giving your name to the cops is a requirement, as is accepting a short detention. Even if it cuts into your sunbathing time. It’s okay, the young people who don’t actually attack cops (she was walking away from the cops, and didn’t even physically react until after the cop began brutalizing her and she was face down in the sand) and might play loud music aren’t going to hurt you. These young folks aren’t a threat to you or anyone. You’re going to be okay. Please seek help. It’s not normal to be so terrified by young people playing loud music or walking away from cops and reacting as normal people would do (trying to steady themselves and not choke on sand) when a cop starts brutalizing them. It’s not healthy to be so scared all the time, particularly scared of people that pose no threat to you or anyone. It’s not healthy or normal to [praise someone who shot at fleeing teenagers as someone normal people would want around them.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20724340#post20724340) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13678 "2018-06-01T15:10:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So, the cops had every right to use force to stop her fighting back and subdue her. So, a few rabbit punches are OK as far as you’re concerned. Would you ever draw a line? What if the cop threw an elbow or three? Used his knee to break her nose? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13679 "2018-06-01T15:19:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s okay, the young people who don’t actually attack cops (she was walking away from the cops, and didn’t even physically react until after the cop began brutalizing her and she was face down in the sand) and might play loud music aren’t going to hurt you. No, she physically reacted when he attempted to cuff her. By no standards any sane person (or even me) uses is a cop attempting to cuff a suspect brutality. _Nothing_ he did can reasonably be consider “brutal”. Not all force is violence, not all violence is brutality, and sometimes each of them can be necessary. And it’s not about me getting hurt. It’s about people who have so little respect for society that they not only refuse to acknowledge but actively fight against their representatives. You think you should be allowed to sit next to someone else’s booze regardless of your age? I agree, it’s a stupid law. But if you’re breaking it, even if you disagree strongly with the law, you don’t have the right to refuse the police demands and the fight back against them. I’m glad the body camera was on. If we only had the short, original footage that simply showed the punches it would have looked like a vast overreaction at minimum by the cops. But we have the full lead up, and it’s clear that some use of force to restrain her was necessary, and at worst the cop made a slight overreaction that deserves a slap on the wrist\*. Something that I strongly suspect is true of the majority of these cases. \*That’s a metaphor, I’m not advocating violence ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13680 "2018-06-01T15:19:49Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, a few rabbit punches are OK as far as you’re concerned. Would you ever draw a line? What if the cop threw an elbow or three? Used his knee to break her nose? Why bother? You know he creams his jeans every time an officer shoots a negro, because, they were asking for it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13681 "2018-06-01T15:23:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, she physically reacted when he attempted to cuff her. By no standards any sane person (or even me) uses is a cop attempting to cuff a suspect brutality. _Nothing_ he did can reasonably be consider “brutal”. Not all force is violence, not all violence is brutality, and sometimes each of them can be necessary. > > And it’s not about me getting hurt. It’s about people who have so little respect for society that they not only refuse to acknowledge but actively fight against their representatives. You think you should be allowed to sit next to someone else’s booze regardless of your age? I agree, it’s a stupid law. But if you’re breaking it, even if you disagree strongly with the law, you don’t have the right to refuse the police demands and the fight back against them. > > I’m glad the body camera was on. If we only had the short, original footage that simply showed the punches it would have looked like a vast overreaction at minimum by the cops. But we have the full lead up, and it’s clear that some use of force to restrain her was necessary, and at worst the cop made a slight overreaction that deserves a slap on the wrist\*. Something that I strongly suspect is true of the majority of these cases. > > \*That’s a metaphor, I’m not advocating violence It’s okay, I understand that this almost hallucinatorily fictional rendering of the video comes from a place of terror. Your hallucinations and manifestations aren’t reality, they’re just a fiction created by an absolutely terror-stricken mind, and it’s not your fault. It’s not your fault that you see brutality as acceptable, and that you see a convicted murderer who shot at fleeing children as someone normal people should want near them. These things aren’t your fault, but you need help to overcome them, and I sincerely hope you seek that help. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=683) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=685)