# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 688
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13742 "2018-06-02T16:32:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Nope, neither pointing nor laughing, and not finding any joy in this. I just find it sad that people aren’t willing or able to acknowledge that the suffering of this family was almost entirely caused by the guy who was responsible for his own death, and instead are blaming the police or the jury. So you are in agreement with the police that he must have put the gun back into his pocket after he was shot in the head? > [@](#): > > He got himself killed through his own stupidity, and caused his family to suffer. He’s the arsehole responsible for this, not the cop who shot him nor the jury that awarded them adequate compensation. See, there you are, making fun of the guy who is dead and cannot defend himself. Further compounded by your little dig there that $0.04 is “adequate” compensation. > [@](#): > > I don’t laugh at tragedy, and I wasn’t going to comment on this until some idiot asked how it was defensible - a question obviously aimed at one of the people here with similar views to me. But, as you just said, you don’t think that it is a tragedy, you are free to laugh > [@](#): > > That you think anyone who has differing views to you must take joy in the suffering of others says far more about your lack of empathy and basic humanity than it does about anyone else. No, it just makes me an observer of your behavior. As long as you are trying to make the observer of shitty behavior out to be the bad one, care to comment on Shodan’s comment in #13712, and explain how that is not findinging amusement at the expense of those grieving over a dead loved one? ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13743 "2018-06-02T17:15:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, but you’re lying. What the hell ?!? You’re a mind reader now ? > [@](#): > > You can’t reasonably say you would be fine with no compensation but not fine with some. There’s no mocking involved just (correctly) disinterest in the effect has on the man’s family. You’re amazingly stupid if you can’t see the huge middle finger in this “compensation”. You seriously think that saying “he was 99% responsible so no compensation is awarded at all” is worse than “this guy’s life would’ve been worth **four dollars** if he’d known his place, but as he didn’t it’s only four cents”. THAT is the troubling part here. And notice how those four dollars were **before** reducing 99% for his actions. But yes, I see, in your mind four dollars is huge overprice for a black person. That four cents is more reasonable, after all he’s dead so he can’t pick any cotton. > [@](#): > > You honestly think people shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions because it might _upset_ someone? That would be taking the bleeding-heart leftie stereotype to an absurd extreme. No, you moron. People should be held accountable for their actions. No-one here is denying that, except you if those people are cops. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13744 "2018-06-02T18:29:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So you are in agreement with the police that he must have put the gun back into his pocket after he was shot in the head? I believe that two juries who, having seen all the evidence, found there was no criminal case to answer and only 1% responsibility to be a more reliable source to base my opinion on than some random idiot on the internet. > [@](#): > > See, there you are, making fun of the guy who is dead and cannot defend himself. Further compounded by your little dig there that $0.04 is “adequate” compensation. I’m not making fun of him, just as I’m not making fun of you when I call you an idiot. I’m entirelt serious. Not sure where you get the idea that referring to the compensation as adequate is a “dig”, it’s an observation. > [@](#): > > But, as you just said, you don’t think that it is a tragedy, you are free to laugh Of course it’s a tragedy. Who has responsibility for the death doesn’t change that - in fact, it could be argues that it’s a worse tragedy for the family that it was his fault. I am, of course, free to laugh no matter what. I choose not to, as it’s not funny. > [@](#): > > No, it just makes me an observer of your behavior. As long as you are trying to make the observer of shitty behavior out to be the bad one, care to comment on Shodan’s comment in #13712, and explain how that is not findinging amusement at the expense of those grieving over a dead loved one? I am not **Shodan** , nor will I speak for him. I would guess from his post that he’s finding amusement in the idea that anyone thinks that this jury has found that the stated sum is the value of a man’s life, as that’s a patently absurd reading of the situation. Laughing at the absurd is a normal reaction, even when doing so could be considered tasteless. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13745 "2018-06-02T18:34:46Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > No, you moron. People should be held accountable for their actions. No-one here is denying that, except you if those people are cops. And yet you object to the jury stating exactly, in monetary terms, what that level of accountability is, and would prefer it to be zero. And then, presumably with a straight face, say I am the one who wants cops to be let off… That makes, quite literally, no sense. And as I said in my last post, the $4 is not intended to be the value of anyone’s life. It’s a token amount to represent a tiny amount of damage. That it may upset the family is irrelevant, and not something I’d expect a court to take into account. You must surely be aware of other cases where $1 of symbolic damages is awarded, or people taking token payments of that amount? It’s not an unusual thing. The only thing that slightly bothers me is the reduction from a dollar to a cent, as I was under the impression that it was already a dollar because of minimal responsibility. I’d support paying them the full amount. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13746 "2018-06-02T18:36:16Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > But yes, I see, in your mind four dollars is huge overprice for a black person. That four cents is more reasonable, after all he’s dead so he can’t pick any cotton. > > No, you moron. People should be held accountable for their actions. No-one here is denying that, except you if those people are cops. I think you are being a little unfair to Steophan. Before I put him back on the greyling list, I didn’t notice any particular racism in his unwavering support for police shooting people. Black folks do tend to get shot more (which is racist) but that isn’t his fault. I think Steophan is just as supportive of white men being shot as a black ones. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13747 "2018-06-02T18:39:23Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I think Steophan is just as supportive of white men being shot as a black ones. I think people have a right to defend themselves against attackers regardless of race or any other characteristics, if that’s what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13748 "2018-06-02T18:58:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I think people have a right to defend themselves against attackers regardless of race or any other characteristics, if that’s what you mean. I believe that, but what I meant is that you express nearly unwavering support for the police, whatever their actions. You don’t support what appear to most people to be abuses of police power only when they affect minorities - you also support white people being abused by the police. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13749 "2018-06-02T19:02:42Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I believe that, but what I meant is that you express nearly unwavering support for the police, whatever their actions. You don’t support what appear to most people to be abuses of police power only when they affect minorities - you also support white people being abused by the police. I don’t think he’s driven by racism, but by constant irrational terror. Other than racism, I can’t imagine what aside from constant terror of young people could drive him to praise a man, Michael Dunn, who shot at fleeing children, as the type of man normal people would want to live near them, and as a man who “stands up to bullies”. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13750 "2018-06-02T19:05:53Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I believe that, but what I meant is that you express nearly unwavering support for the police, whatever their actions. You don’t support what appear to most people to be abuses of police power only when they affect minorities - you also support white people being abused by the police. I don’t support abuse, I simply don’t sign up to conspiracy theories that claim there’s abuse everywhere even when a thorough investigation fails to find it. Just as I refuse to believe random internet commentators over experts on vaccinations or global warming, I refuse to believe someone who has neither knowledge of law nor of the particular events involved when they claim that a cop has done something wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13751 "2018-06-02T19:07:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think he’s driven by racism, but by constant irrational terror. Other than racism, I can’t imagine what could drive him to praise a man, Michael Dunn, who shot at fleeing children, as the type of man normal people would want to live near them, and as a man who “stands up to bullies”. You can clearly imagine what it is, as I’ve repeatedly told you. Standing up to bullies, and defending yourself and others against aggressors is admirable behaviour. That he later committed attempted murder doesn’t affect any judgement of his previous actions. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13752 "2018-06-02T19:12:23Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You can clearly imagine what it is, as I’ve repeatedly told you. Standing up to bullies, and defending yourself and others against aggressors is admirable behaviour. That he later committed attempted murder doesn’t affect any judgement of his previous actions. It’s not your fault. It’s not reasonable to view the actions of a convicted murderer who shot at fleeing (and unarmed) children as “standing up to bullies” and “defending yourself and others against aggressors”, but I understand that this is just a result of the extreme irrational terror of young people that you feel. It’s not your fault. Peace and love, as always. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13753 "2018-06-02T20:12:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not your fault. It’s not reasonable to view the actions of a convicted murderer who shot at fleeing (and unarmed) children as “standing up to bullies” and “defending yourself and others against aggressors”, but I understand that this is just a result of the extreme irrational terror of young people that you feel. It’s not your fault. Peace and love, as always. I’m not claiming that shooting at fleeing young people is either of those things, though. As you well know, because I said as much in the post you quoted. And you wonder why I think you’re a liar? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13754 "2018-06-02T21:32:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not claiming that shooting at fleeing young people is either of those things, though. As you well know, because I said as much in the post you quoted. And you wonder why I think you’re a liar? It’s okay. I understand you think his actions, which resulted in a murder conviction and a dead unarmed child, as standing up to bullies, and the actions of someone you think normal people want near them. This is the terror talking. It’s a fiction. It’s not normal to admire actions that result in a dead unarmed child and a murder conviction. But it’s not your fault. Fight against it, for your own good. Peace and love. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13755 "2018-06-03T23:34:14Z")
I doubt this will be very controversial, but I wonder if if would be ok to post a law-enforcement shooting [video](https://www.denverpost.com/2018/06/02/fbi-mile-high-spirits-shooting/) that everyone can agree on? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13756 "2018-06-03T23:49:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I am not **Shodan** And that is supposed to be a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13757 "2018-06-04T11:56:57Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Just read Shodan or Steophan’s posts with a southern accent. A southern drawl. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13758 "2018-06-04T12:53:45Z")
Don’t be afraid to ask for help with the words you don’t understand, like “reasonable” and “legal”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13759 "2018-06-04T13:02:31Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > And that is supposed to be a good thing? It’s supposed to be a fact, so neutral - neither good nor bad. It doesn’t surprise me that you can ascribe a moral value to a fact, though, as that’s the biggest problem so many people have in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13760 "2018-06-04T16:03:32Z")
I find this controversial: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FZ7W7qQlmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FZ7W7qQlmw) The police taser a handcuffed, non-resisting citizen of the United States to teach him some manners. I am sure Steophan thinks everything is A-OK with what happened in this interaction. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13761 "2018-06-04T16:09:49Z")
He thinks kicking a prone, handcuffed guy in the head is a “petty crime” that shouldn’t be reported. He won’t even bat an eye at this. There is something wrong with him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=687) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=689)