# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 689
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13762 "2018-06-04T16:44:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, they didn’t. Asking someone what they’re doing in a private place isn’t confrontation, asking someone to turn their music down isn’t confrontation. Yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13763 "2018-06-04T17:34:14Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > I find this controversial: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FZ7W7qQlmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FZ7W7qQlmw) > > The police taser a handcuffed, non-resisting citizen of the United States to teach him some manners. I am sure Steophan thinks everything is A-OK with what happened in this interaction. So, according to the cop, “It’s their [whoever called the police] perception that counts” as to why this guy is under arrest for carrying a BB gun. Going past that, there’s no justification for tasing him while handcuffed… twice. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13764 "2018-06-04T17:42:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yes it is. [No, it isn’t.](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/confrontation) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13765 "2018-06-04T17:48:05Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > I find this controversial: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FZ7W7qQlmw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FZ7W7qQlmw) > > The police taser a handcuffed, non-resisting citizen of the United States to teach him some manners. I am sure Steophan thinks everything is A-OK with what happened in this interaction. He wasn’t “non-resisting”. If people stop making false claims like that it would be possible to actually have dialogue about what is or isn’t a reasonable response, but when people repeatedly deny the evidence of their eyes and ears, that is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13766 "2018-06-04T17:50:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > [No, it isn’t.](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/confrontation) [Yes, it is](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/confrontation). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13767 "2018-06-04T17:53:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > He wasn’t “non-resisting”. If people stop making false claims like that it would be possible to actually have dialogue about what is or isn’t a reasonable response, but when people repeatedly deny the evidence of their eyes and ears, that is impossible. I just watched that video again, about 5 times. Can you point out the time when the resisting starts? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13768 "2018-06-04T18:10:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > He thinks kicking a prone, handcuffed guy in the head is a “petty crime” that shouldn’t be reported. He won’t even bat an eye at this. There is something wrong with him. He must be a fact. > [@Steophan](#): > > It’s supposed to be a fact, so neutral - neither good nor bad. It doesn’t surprise me that you can ascribe a moral value to a fact, though, as that’s the biggest problem so many people have in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13769 "2018-06-04T18:15:26Z")
‘_He wasn’t “non-resisting”._’ Holy fuck, what the hell, man. How much more compliant does a person have to be? Oh, right, he was refusing to not be black. That explains it. What a piece of fetid shit you are. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13770 "2018-06-04T18:22:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > ‘_He wasn’t “non-resisting”._’ Holy fuck, what the hell, man. How much more compliant does a person have to be? To be non-resisting? Entirely compliant. It’s not complicated. As I said, there’s obviously a discussion to be had about whether or not the amount of force used was appropriate, but to pretend that he’s not constantly telling the cops that they can’t do what they’re doing, or to pretend you didn’t see him try to pull away, is just silly. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13771 "2018-06-04T18:24:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Yes, it is](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/confrontation). Posting a cite that agrees with me but claiming the opposite is not going to be a winning tactic. Posting in this thread gives me a great understanding of how Winston Smith must have felt. Do you not understand that the people trying to claim that words mean the opposite of what they actually do, or that things you can clearly see didn’t actually happen, were the _bad guys?_ ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13772 "2018-06-04T18:27:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > To be non-resisting? Entirely compliant. It’s not complicated. As I said, there’s obviously a discussion to be had about whether or not the amount of force used was appropriate, but to pretend that he’s not constantly telling the cops that they can’t do what they’re doing, or to pretend you didn’t see him try to pull away, is just silly. Again, can you point to the timestamp were you believe he is trying to pull away? And what does “telling the cops that they can’t do what they’re doing” have anything to do with resisting? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13773 "2018-06-04T18:30:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Again, can you point to the timestamp were you believe he is trying to pull away? And what does “telling the cops that they can’t do what they’re doing” have anything to do with resisting? He was resisting their opinion that he did something wrong? I got nothin’. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13774 "2018-06-04T18:33:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > And what does “telling the cops that they can’t do what they’re doing” have anything to do with resisting? Cops are on their feet for hours every day. Anything other than an offer of a foot massage is apparently resisting. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13775 "2018-06-04T18:40:17Z")
“Winston Smith”? Says the guy who fellates the police? This is more cog-dis than any normal person should have to face. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13776 "2018-06-04T18:45:25Z")
Hey [FactBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php), the police chief, [to his credit](https://youtu.be/Nmsuhb90uJw), had the incident investigated and then reprimanded the assailant, including keeping the son-of-a-bitch away for the public until he had been re-educated. But of course you know better, because you are privileged to have special facts and special ethics. What a very special little boy you are, FactBoy, to be able to live in your own self-created universe without regard to reality, rationality, or human decency. Regards ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13777 "2018-06-04T19:00:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Again, can you point to the timestamp were you believe he is trying to pull away? And what does “telling the cops that they can’t do what they’re doing” have anything to do with resisting? Yes, it’s at 1:29, about 4 or 5 seconds before he gets tased. As for your question, it’s nonsensical. “What does resisting have to do with resisting?”… Obviously (well, to me anyway) verbal resistance doesn’t require a physical response, but neither is it actual compliance - which is what I was asked about when I mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13778 "2018-06-04T19:02:23Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Hey [FactBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php), the police chief, [to his credit](https://youtu.be/Nmsuhb90uJw), had the incident investigated and then reprimanded the assailant, including keeping the son-of-a-bitch away for the public until he had been re-educated. > > But of course you know better, because you are privileged to have special facts and special ethics. What a very special little boy you are, FactBoy, to be able to live in your own self-created universe without regard to reality, rationality, or human decency. > > Regards So, the investigation determined that the cop overreacted. I’ve not denied that at any point, I’ve simply said that lying and saying that the suspect complied with the police is not an acceptable starting point for the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13779 "2018-06-04T19:06:57Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “Winston Smith”? Says the guy who fellates the police? This is more cog-dis than any normal person should have to face. Fuck off, homophobe. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13780 "2018-06-04T19:15:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, it’s at 1:29, about 4 or 5 seconds before he gets tased. As for your question, it’s nonsensical. “What does resisting have to do with resisting?”… Obviously (well, to me anyway) verbal resistance doesn’t require a physical response, but neither is it actual compliance - which is what I was asked about when I mentioned it. At 1:29, I see the one cop has a hold on his arm as they are cutting off the backpack. Not sure how much trying to get away he can do. As for “verbal resistance”, that is a bunch of shit. A suspect could be laying on the ground, face down, not moving anything but his mouth telling the cops to go fuck themselves, and you would call that resistance. “verbal resistance”?? You’ve got to be kidding me. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13781 "2018-06-04T19:32:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > “verbal resistance”?? You’ve got to be kidding me. So you call that 100% compliance? Because that’s bullshit, it isn’t. It’s nothing particularly serious, and not somethimg that deserves any sort of reprisal, but neither is it ideal. But hey, focus on that rather than on the rest of what happens. Ignore him pushing back on the cop then trying to pull away, because you don’t like that I mentioned what he was saying. It might make you feel better, but it won’t make you right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=688) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=690)