# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 690
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13782 "2018-06-04T19:37:48Z")
Pushing off? They were manhandling him. There is no part of that video where any move he makes does not look the the officers moving him around. Just, fuck your asshole attitude, turdsack. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13783 "2018-06-04T19:40:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So you call that 100% compliance? Because that’s bullshit, it isn’t. It’s nothing particularly serious, and not somethimg that deserves any sort of reprisal, but neither is it ideal. > > But hey, focus on that rather than on the rest of what happens. Ignore him pushing back on the cop then trying to pull away, because you don’t like that I mentioned what he was saying. It might make you feel better, but it won’t make you right. Well, I can focus on the physical actions and we can talk about that. But when someone says talking back to the cop is “verbal resistance”, it becomes ridiculous. But if the cops actions were correct, why was he reprimanded? I guess you know better than the police Chief and the Attorney General’s office. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13784 "2018-06-04T20:00:54Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But if the cops actions were correct, why was he reprimanded? I guess you know better than the police Chief and the Attorney General’s office. Where did I say they were correct? I’ve said repeatedly that there should eb a discussion of whether or not he overreacted - but that can’t happen when people refuse to acknowledge that he was reacting at all. Try responding to what I actually say, not some other argument you can already defeat. As I’ve said uncountable times, incidents like this need to be properly investigated and judged. If, as people claim here, that’s happened and the cop has been reprimanded or whatever, then that’s good. What is not good, not acceptable, is people outright lying about what is shown on the video and making judgements from that. At worst, this is an overreaction, not the brutal attack that certain people like to make any use of force out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13785 "2018-06-04T20:03:57Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Pushing off? They were manhandling him. There is no part of that video where any move he makes does not look the the officers moving him around. Just, fuck your asshole attitude, turdsack. You are a liar. I do not for one second believe that any honest person could watch that video and come to that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13786 "2018-06-04T20:05:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Where did I say they were correct? I’ve said repeatedly that there should eb a discussion of whether or not he overreacted - but that can’t happen when people refuse to acknowledge that he was reacting at all. > > Try responding to what I actually say, not some other argument you can already defeat. As I’ve said uncountable times, incidents like this need to be properly investigated and judged. If, as people claim here, that’s happened and the cop has been reprimanded or whatever, then that’s good. What is not good, not acceptable, is people outright lying about what is shown on the video and making judgements from that. At worst, this is an overreaction, not the brutal attack that certain people like to make any use of force out to be. First, I wouldn’t consider not thinking that talking back to the cop is resisting as “lying” If you say “He was resisting!” and I say “No he wasn’t” and it turns out you incredulously meant talking back to the cop, then that’s not lying. That’s just someone using a stupid definition of resisting. And I don’t see any push back or “resisting” in the video. If I did, I would say so, because I don’t lie. Plus, the “he wasn’t resisting” side is backed up by the reprimand and other punishments he received. You have nothing but your thoughts on the video, thoughts that are already suspect due to you thinking talking back to a cop while you are handcuffed is somehow resisting. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13787 "2018-06-04T20:08:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, it’s at 1:29, about 4 or 5 seconds before he gets tased. As for your question, it’s nonsensical. “What does resisting have to do with resisting?”… Obviously (well, to me anyway) verbal resistance doesn’t require a physical response, but neither is it actual compliance - which is what I was asked about when I mentioned it. The knots you tie yourself into to claim “he had it coming” really are extraordinary. Verbal resistance? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13788 "2018-06-04T20:27:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, it’s at 1:29, about 4 or 5 seconds before he gets tased. I just went back and watched the video again three times. I don’t see him resisting at all. At all. But let’s assume I can’t see it due to camera angles (I don’t believe this is true). What about the second tasing? The guy is laying on the ground not moving at all when the trigger-happy cop tases him again!! Just for good measure, I suppose. This is police brutality, plain and simple. I’m wondering how this bodycam footage ever got released. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13789 "2018-06-04T20:29:43Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > I just went back and watched the video again three times. I don’t see him resisting at all. At all. > > But let’s assume I can’t see it due to camera angles (I don’t believe this is true). What about the second tasing? The guy is laying on the ground not moving at all when the trigger-happy cop tases him again!! Just for good measure, I suppose. > > This is police brutality, plain and simple. > > I’m wondering how this bodycam footage ever got released. He tased him again to make sure he understood! That’s the only way people understand what the cops are telling them. Tasing. He might have been talking back to the cop, that deserves another tasing, because that’s verbally resisting. Or he might have be yelling in pain and the cop thought “I’ll give you something to yell about” and then tased him again. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13790 "2018-06-04T20:39:43Z")
The guy was a regular angel there. Now I’m a very calm person and hardly ever get angry, but if somebody would cut my backpack straps just like that I would be livid :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13791 "2018-06-04T20:48:47Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > The knots you tie yourself into to claim “he had it coming” really are extraordinary. Verbal resistance? I’ve not said at any point that he had it coming. I’ve observed that, as am actual, verifiable fact, the video shows him physically resisting and verbally opposing the cops’ actions. And yet, instead of being willing to discuss whether or not the tasing was reasonable (spoiler alert - it wasn’t) people instead lie about both the contents of the video and of my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13792 "2018-06-04T20:50:26Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > The guy was a regular angel there. Now I’m a very calm person and hardly ever get angry, but if somebody would cut my backpack straps just like that I would be livid :mad: Then _you_, unlike that gun-brandishing angel, would deserve tasing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13793 "2018-06-04T21:07:50Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ve not said at any point that he had it coming. I’ve observed that, as am actual, verifiable fact, the video shows him physically resisting and verbally opposing the cops’ actions. Verbally opposing a cop’s action is irrelevant and is no justification for any action by the cop. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13794 "2018-06-04T21:13:00Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Then _you_, unlike that gun-brandishing angel, would deserve tasing. For being angry ? I did NOT say would become violent or start yelling. I would just be angry. Oh, right. Mentally resisting. Tase away. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13795 "2018-06-04T21:24:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So you call that 100% compliance? Because that’s bullshit, it isn’t. It’s nothing particularly serious, and not somethimg that deserves any sort of reprisal, but neither is it ideal. > > But hey, focus on that rather than on the rest of what happens. Ignore him pushing back on the cop then trying to pull away, because you don’t like that I mentioned what he was saying. It might make you feel better, but it won’t make you right. He pulled away when he got tazed. That’s what we humans call an involuntary reaction. > [@](#): > > Reflexes. A reflex, or reflex action, is the automatic involuntary movement of any organ or body part in response to a stimulus. It happens immediately without any conscious thought or decision. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13796 "2018-06-04T21:29:17Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > The knots you tie yourself into to claim “he had it coming” really are extraordinary. Verbal resistance? It could have been worse. at least it was not resistance of the mind. Right Steph? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13797 "2018-06-04T21:38:13Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Verbally opposing a cop’s action is irrelevant and is no justification for any action by the cop. It’s not irrelevant to the question I was asked when mentioning it, as that question was not “did anything he said mean he deserved to be tased?”. I’ve not suggested it is a justification, and I’ve not seen anyone else do so. I’ve seen a lot of people claim it isn’t with no-one disagreeing, which makes me wonder at the point of constantly posting it. Let’s sum up the video and aftermath. Guy gets arrested, mouths off and mildly resists, cop slightly overreacts, cop gets slap on wrist. It’s a nothing of an event, and the only thing that is making it worth talking about is the incomprehensible failure of a few people to see what’s literally in front of their eyes. It’s not surprising as such, as it’s happened with several other videos in the past, but it is baffling. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13798 "2018-06-04T21:46:11Z")
You are right, Steophan, that tasing was overreacting. The cop should’ve just kicked his head and it would’ve been fine. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13799 "2018-06-04T21:55:53Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > You are right, Steophan, that tasing was overreacting. The cop should’ve just kicked his head and it would’ve been fine. No, he should have got a slap on the wrist for that too. Oh wait, he did. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13800 "2018-06-04T22:24:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Posting a cite that agrees with me but claiming the opposite is not going to be a winning tactic. Posting in this thread gives me a great understanding of how Winston Smith must have felt. Do you not understand that the people trying to claim that words mean the opposite of what they actually do, or that things you can clearly see didn’t actually happen, were the _bad guys?_ Being unbelievably stupid but claiming the opposite is not going to be a winning tactic. > [@](#): > > a meeting of persons face to face. You’re wrong. > [@Steophan](#): > > Do you not understand that the people trying to claim that words mean the opposite of what they actually do, or that things you can clearly see didn’t actually happen, were the _bad guys?_ You must be one of the bad guys then, **Steophan**. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/13801 "2018-06-04T22:33:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Being unbelievably stupid but claiming the opposite is not going to be a winning tactic.You’re wrong.You must be one of the bad guys then, **Steophan**. Something something quarry. A polite request is not a confrontation. Hell, even an impolite one rarely is. Do you honestly believe that a fucking dinner date, to pick an example of “a meeting of persons face to face” is a confrontation? Learn to read for context, admit you’re utterly wrong, and fuck off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=689) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=691)