# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 701
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14002 "2018-06-15T16:07:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Bribes and graft? And doughnuts. Don’t forget those. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14003 "2018-06-15T16:10:53Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But how sure should they have to be that their life is actually in danger before they take a potential innocent life? 100%, 50%, 10%? How many civilians is each cops life worth? If a cop feels his life is threatened is he justified in grabbing a nearby civilian and using him as a human shield? It’s not an issue of certainty, but belief, so your question isn’t relevant. It’s also nothing to do with cops and civilians, as the same right to self defence should apply to everybody. And to your last question, no, but again that has nothing to do with cops and civilians, as it would be wrong and illegal for anyone to do that. ---
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14004 "2018-06-15T16:27:57Z")
I think this is so wrong on so many levels - [Minneapolis police officers have repeatedly requested over the past three years that Hennepin County medical responders sedate people using the powerful tranquilizer ketamine, at times over the protests of those being drugged, and in some cases when no apparent crime was committed, a city report shows.](http://www.startribune.com/at-urging-of-police-hennepin-emts-subdued-dozens-with-powerful-sedative/485607381/) Why are police telling medical personnel to inject people with ketamine? Why are they making specific medical decisions? Asking for ketamine by name? What training to they have to decide this is the best option? Why are the EMTs listening to them in this case? Considering the examples mentioned were of people stopping breathing and being intubated, (the asthmatic is especially disturbing). Apparently this was a leaked draft, but city officials are already on the the defensive, but who would think this is a good idea (besides the usual suspects). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14005 "2018-06-15T21:54:07Z")
[Kansas City, Kansas City, Kansas City](https://apnews.com/8dfcd38f7f914b5c802bdf8c745f8765/Concerns-raised-over-3-deaths-in-2-separate-police-shootings). \ > [@](#): > > Kansas City police shot and killed two men who were fighting in a downtown square, less than an hour after city officers fatally shot a woman reportedly seen brandishing a sword, raising concerns about police tactics and how the investigations will be handled. > > The shootings all happened Thursday afternoon. Police Chief Rick Smith acknowledged it was unusual to have two deadly force incidents in such a short time span, given that Kansas City police typically count two to five fatal officer-involved shootings per year. The Kansas City Star reported Smith said the officers “did what they thought was necessary.” > > “I just wanted people in this city to know our officers are dedicated to go out here and protect the citizens of this city. Both incidents unfolded protecting other citizens,” Smith said. > > The Rev. Vernon Howard, president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference of Greater Kansas City, said he has many questions and isn’t confident they will be answered by a police department investigation. > > “It is clear to us that the accountability is not coming from within,” Howard said. “There has absolutely got to be an independent review board.” What happened? > [@](#): > > Few details have been released about the shootings. The first death happened when police shot Ashley D. Fulkerson, 29, of Kansas City, who barricaded herself in a shed for hours after someone called 911 to report she was outside in a residential area with a sword. > > Police Capt. Lionel Colón said Friday that a sword was recovered at the scene. Police have not said if Fulkerson had exited the shed or was shot while still inside. > > Colón said he was “very confident (the shooting) was a last-resort situation to ensure the safety of the public.” And > [@](#): > > The victims of the second shooting had been fighting over a golf cart and a gun in Barney Allis Plaza in downtown Kansas City, about 10 miles (16 kilometers) from the first shooting. Colón said a gun was recovered from one of the deceased men. Their names have not been released. As the story notes, not a lot of details available yet, just plenty of controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14006 "2018-06-15T22:05:05Z")
> [@](#): > > The victims of the second shooting had been fighting over a golf cart and a gun in Barney Allis Plaza in downtown Kansas City, about 10 miles (16 kilometers) from the first shooting. Colón said a gun was recovered from one of the deceased men. Their names have not been released. Was it [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Qs8dHthqM) guy? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14007 "2018-06-16T06:20:25Z")
…come-on-down US Border Patrol. > I’ve linked to the tweet directly as opposed to any of the news coverage, because the news coverage has headlines such as “Video Shows Border Patrol **Allegedly** Running Over Native American Man on Reservation.” And from that headline you might think you are going to get some grainy footage that may or may not show a man getting run-over by an indistinct vehicle that may or may not be a Border Patrol vehicle but nope. Its as clear as day. A Border Patrol vehicle lines the man up, knocks him over, and takes off. In response, the Border Patrol said this: > [@](#): > > Robert G. Daniels, a spokesman in Arizona for the Border Patrol, said the agency was not able to release the identity of the agent involved in the episode; the video seems to show the vehicle speeding away after the victim is hit. > > “All I can say is that this incident is under investigation,” Mr. Daniels said. In-fucking-crediable. Meanwhile down-under in Wellywood, this happened just down the road from me last night. > > [@](#): > > Just watched a couple of Old White Male cops question a group of Pacifc youths hanging at Frank Kitts Park. > > Youth said they were dancers and started clapping a beat and dancing. > > Then the cops danced. > > They all danced. > > They all laughed. > > I wiped away a tear and moved on. I love my city. ---
**Author:** ![SaneBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SaneBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaneBill)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14008 "2018-06-16T10:20:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And Wait, what ? Two guys are fighting and the cops decide that the best way to stop them hurting each other is… to kill them both ?! ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14009 "2018-06-16T10:43:44Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > Wait, what ? Two guys are fighting and the cops decide that the best way to stop them hurting each other is… to kill them both ?! Well, if they only killed one of them, it would indicate a bias. The only fair thing to do is such a situation is to kill both of them. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14010 "2018-06-16T13:45:46Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > There have been too many cases of NO gun. Unarmed people. Gunned down by police - and recorded in video. Some, with their back turned or laying on the ground. Unarmed people are the best people to shoot. Think about it. Real Americans all carry handguns at all times. _(With a round in the chamber._)\* Patriots, country folk, people not duped by Hillary’s lies, people who watch Fair and Balanced news instead of lamestream FakeNews lies — they all carry firearms; it’s a mark of Americanhood. Even the destitute coal-miners laid off by Obama sell their old pickups so they can own an AR-15. Ethnic felons not allowed to carry, illegal immigrants afraid to give cops an excuse, niggers, hoity-toity San Francisco liberals who drink imported wine, atheists — these are the people who do _not_ carry firearms. A little angel has a little orgasm every time an anti-gun “American” is killed. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > In Chicago [police break in and terrorize family in wrong address raid.](http://wgntv.com/2018/06/13/top-cop-responds-after-police-raid-wrong-home-thats-not-a-good-thing/) > The door is damaged, they ransacked the house and they handcuffed the children. > [@](#): > > “They put us in handcuffs and told us to sit on the couch,” Janell Island, one of Pender’s children, said. “I was confused. The police officer told me to shut up.” > … > Jamell Island was closest to the front door, playing video games, when the door was busted open. He said the officers did not announce themselves as police. He said they just banged on the door… > **He said police knocked him down, put the gun to his head and handcuffed him and his brother. He said they took him to the bathroom, pulled his pants down and started checking to see if he had anything on him. He said he felt humiliated…** > After searching every corner of the apartment, police apologized and left the building. > > Terricky said it was little consolation. She said she was left with a ransacked home, a broken door and shaken image of the police. Zheesh, **Terricky**. The police **apologized**. Did you apologize to them? Lucky you if they don’t send a bill for wasting police time. And get a load of those names! Anybody think these were _real_ white-skinned Americans? Three guesses and the first two don’t count! ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14011 "2018-06-16T16:07:34Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Kansas City, Kansas City, Kansas City](https://apnews.com/8dfcd38f7f914b5c802bdf8c745f8765/Concerns-raised-over-3-deaths-in-2-separate-police-shootings). \ > What happened?AndAs the story notes, not a lot of details available yet, just plenty of controversy. Dude, if you were a band at a concert, you’d be getting booed right about now - that was KC, \*\*Missouri \*\*police in both cases. The downtown shooting may or may not turn out to be righteous - at least one of those guys was apparently armed. Shooting the woman barricaded in a shed with sword is going to take a bunch more justifying. On a side note, two deputies were shot in KCK yesterday, one fatally (and the other is critical). ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14012 "2018-06-16T17:48:01Z")
Where is the “omnibus” thread about the good things that police do every day? This thread is depressing as fuck. A thread like that would provide a nice counterbalance, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14013 "2018-06-16T22:04:00Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Where is the “omnibus” thread about the good things that police do every day? This thread is depressing as fuck. A thread like that would provide a nice counterbalance, methinks. …it really isn’t fucking hard to click the “new thread” button if you want to start a thread to “counterbalance” this one. So go do that already. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14014 "2018-06-16T22:36:42Z")
Not sure why you put the word counterbalance in quotes, but yeah, I think we need a thread like that. If my university days taught me anything, it’s that part of developing critical thinking skills is looking at diverging opinions and multiple facets of an issue before you can comment intelligently on it. I guess I’ll put it into IMHO. Let’s hope that thread fills up as quickly as this one does, but I’m not hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14015 "2018-06-16T22:59:56Z")
What does your university training teach you that a separate 14,000 post thread full of “Happy Encounters Between LEOs and Civilians” should lead you to conclude about the issue of police violence? If we stipulate that happy encounters happen (and few would argue they don’t) and that you could counter every anecdote in one thread with a matching anecdote in the other, how should the existence of nonproblematic encounters affect an “intelligent comment” regarding the unhappy kind? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14016 "2018-06-16T23:22:41Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Not sure why you put the word counterbalance in quotes, but yeah, I think we need a thread like that. If my university days taught me anything, it’s that part of developing critical thinking skills is looking at diverging opinions and multiple facets of an issue before you can comment intelligently on it. > > I guess I’ll put it into IMHO. Let’s hope that thread fills up as quickly as this one does, but I’m not hopeful. Most of the time, cops get it right, and part of that is because their jobs really aren’t that hard most of the time. Most cops also are able to get it right when the job is hard. Some don’t. And if you have noticed, this thread is not just about controversial shootings, but fairly straightforward abusive actions that, even if the cops “justify” them, still work to drive a wedge between them and their community. If you want to do a positive police story of the day, you will find many of them. Every day, my local news has several stories about cops doing something or other that is productive to society. In some ways, you could be as productive to start a “Sun rises in the East of the day” thread, as it is _expected_ that police do more good than harm. It is when that expectation is defied that that news finds its way here. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14017 "2018-06-17T00:21:58Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Most of the time, cops get it right, and part of that is because their jobs really aren’t that hard most of the time. > > Most cops also are able to get it right when the job is hard. > > Some don’t. > > And if you have noticed, this thread is not just about controversial shootings, but fairly straightforward abusive actions that, even if the cops “justify” them, still work to drive a wedge between them and their community. > > If you want to do a positive police story of the day, you will find many of them. Every day, my local news has several stories about cops doing something or other that is productive to society. In some ways, you could be as productive to start a “Sun rises in the East of the day” thread, as it is _expected_ that police do more good than harm. It is when that expectation is defied that that news finds its way here. I would submit that the thread I started exemplifies the “defied expectations” shown in this thread, only in an opposite way. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14018 "2018-06-17T00:36:52Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > What does your university training teach you that a separate 14,000 post thread full of “Happy Encounters Between LEOs and Civilians” should lead you to conclude about the issue of police violence? If we stipulate that happy encounters happen (and few would argue they don’t) and that you could counter every anecdote in one thread with a matching anecdote in the other, how should the existence of nonproblematic encounters affect an “intelligent comment” regarding the unhappy kind? It shouldn’t I guess. I know you folks are well aware that, for the most part, cops do good things every day. I admit that a thread containing nothing but feel good stories about the police does not, and more importantly, should not overshadow the police abuse stories. I apologize to you folks for that, especially when I tried to use my schooling experience as some sort of weird way to validate how I feel. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14019 "2018-06-17T01:10:42Z")
Almost forgot: gargle my scrote, unwashed heathens! (gotta keep to the Pit standards but I’m pretty bad at the insult schtick. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14020 "2018-06-17T02:57:43Z")
Well now you’ve just got reasonableness all over the thread. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14021 "2018-06-17T05:51:55Z")
Border Patrol car caught on video running over a Native American man and driving off. > **[Video shows border patrol car hitting Native American man and driving away](https://thehill.com/homenews/news/392643-video-shows-border-patrol-car-hitting-native-american-man-and-driving-away/)** > > A Native American man was struck by a U.S. Border Patrol vehicle Thursday on a reservation in Arizona, according to footage recorded by the man on his cell phone.The incident, captured by Paul… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=700) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=702)