# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 707
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14122 "2018-07-21T23:47:50Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Sheriff of Texas County, Missouri let his girlfriend work as a deputy even though she hadn’t completed her training or being sworn in. She also brought in an unidentified minor girl to play police. > [https://www.officer.com/command-hq/news/21014266/report-missouri-sheriff-let-girlfriend-act-as-deputy-before-hiring-her](https://www.officer.com/command-hq/news/21014266/report-missouri-sheriff-let-girlfriend-act-as-deputy-before-hiring-her) Where’s the “controversial” and the “between law enforcement and civilians” here? Especially the “controversial”? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14123 "2018-07-23T05:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > In the span of a few hours, Gene Atkins had shot his grandmother, kidnapped his girlfriend and then led police on a wild chase from Hollywood to Silver Lake while shooting at officers from his car, authorities said. > > Now, the armed 28-year-old was running through a crowded Trader Joe’s parking lot toward a store filled with dozens of shoppers and employees. The officers chasing him had a decision to make: Shoot back and risk the lives of anyone in the line of fire, or allow Atkins to enter the store and potentially endanger dozens more. In the gun battle that followed, the store’s manager was killed as she stepped into the parking lot. > > It remains unclear whether the manager was shot by police or Atkins, but the decision to engage in a firefight at the busy shopping center led some to question the Los Angeles Police Department’s response, while others were quick to praise the officers for risking their lives in an effort to stop Atkins. > **[Questions swirl over LAPD shootout with gunman that left a Trader Joe's store...](https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-trader-joes-shootout-20180723-story.html)** > > In the span of a few hours, Gene Atkins had shot his grandmother, kidnapped his girlfriend and then led police on a wild chase from Hollywood to Silver Lake while shooting at officers from his car, authorities said. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14124 "2018-07-23T18:01:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The picture is at the top of the linked page. Counting from left, #1, 2, 5 & 6 are all flashing an upside down ok sign. In the film ‘ **Mississippi Burning** ’ (1988), Gene Hackman’s character explains that the three fingers down means KKK. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14125 "2018-07-23T21:05:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Where’s the “controversial” and the “between law enforcement and civilians” here? Especially the “controversial”? It does show some serious disregard for regulations and major incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14126 "2018-07-24T11:48:20Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It does show some serious disregard for regulations and major incompetence. Exactly, and it’s currently being discussed in the **Serious Disregard For Regulations & Major Incompetence - The Omnibus Thread**. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14127 "2018-07-24T18:17:44Z")
Updating post 14109: > [@](#): > > A store worker who was killed in a gun battle at a Trader Joe’s supermarket in Los Angeles before a suspect took hostages was hit by an officer’s bullet, police said on Tuesday. > **[Trader Joe's shooting: employee who died was shot by LAPD officer](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/24/los-angeles-shooting-latest-employee-melyda-corado-killed-police)** > > Gene Evin Atkins to be arraigned on 31 charges over shooting in which Melyda Corado was killed by a police officer’s bullet ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14128 "2018-07-24T19:57:45Z")
They watched **[Speed](https://tenor.com/view/speed-hostage-shoot-gif-9449040)** too many times. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14129 "2018-07-25T19:31:17Z")
Two New Orleans cops charged with battery after taking exception to a man in a bar wearing camouflage, claiming he was claiming to be military just because he wore camouflage, then calling him a “fake American”. > **[Off-Duty Cops Allegedly Called Man 'Fake American'](https://www.newsweek.com/new-orleans-police-fake-american-battery-fight-1042556)** > > "Members of our department are expected to comply with the law." ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14130 "2018-07-25T19:34:56Z")
> [@](#): > > New Orleans Police in a statement said that the men were still in a probationary period in their employment and that a termination process for the pair began Wednesday. So, it sounds like that is good news, at least. And reduces the controversy level by quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14131 "2018-07-26T16:38:03Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Updating post 14109: > > [Trader Joe's gunman charged with murder over shootout that left worker dead | Los Angeles | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/24/los-angeles-shooting-latest-employee-melyda-corado-killed-police) OK, somebody needs to help me with this. [Could death of Trader Joe’s manager have been avoided? It’s too soon to know](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/could-death-of-trader-joes-manager-have-been-avoided-its-too-soon-to-know/ar-BBL29eN) To me, it seems fairly simple. Either you have a shot or you don’t. If there is a person between you and the target, you don’t have a shot. So, either the police did not have a clear shot and fired anyway OR they are very poor marksman. These are the best possibilities. A far worse possibility if that someone fired blindly in a panic. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14132 "2018-07-26T22:12:03Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Two New Orleans cops charged with battery after taking exception to a man in a bar wearing camouflage, claiming he was claiming to be military just because he wore camouflage, then calling him a “fake American”. > [Off-Duty Cops Allegedly Called Man 'Fake American' in Altercation Where He Was Beaten](https://www.newsweek.com/new-orleans-police-fake-american-battery-fight-1042556) Those two assholes … > **[Hate crime charges possible for officers accused of beating man outside bar:...](https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/hate-crime-charges-possible-for-officers-accused-of-beating-man-outside-bar-nopd-chief/article_a05ea843-40ff-5516-9866-7268c63b4b37.html)** > > The New Orleans Police Department is investigating whether two of its own former police officers should be charged with a hate crime in connection to accusations they severely beat a Asked by a WVUE Fox 8 reporter Thursday morning if NOPD is investigating the beating “as a possible hate crime,” Harrison responded, “Well, we are.” The chief continued: “We wanted to sure that that citizens know that the behavior that you saw is not and never will be tolerated. We took very decisive and strong action against them with the evidence that was brought to us.” …Council Member Jason Williams weighed in on the arrest of the NOPD officers Thursday morning, as well, during a City Council meeting. Williams apologized to Gomez and his family, noting the former officers’ behavior did not represent the NOPD or the City of New Orleans. He also said he intended to look into the NOPD’s background check process, which was criticized in a January 2017 report … ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14133 "2018-07-27T00:49:14Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Two New Orleans cops charged with battery after taking exception to a man in a bar wearing camouflage, claiming he was claiming to be military just because he wore camouflage, then calling him a “fake American”. > [Off-Duty Cops Allegedly Called Man 'Fake American' in Altercation Where He Was Beaten](https://www.newsweek.com/new-orleans-police-fake-american-battery-fight-1042556) Minor nit pic. They weren’t acting or invoking their positions as officers when they attacked the victim. They are just two assholes who happen to be police officers. Fortunately they won’t have that title much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14134 "2018-07-27T13:45:51Z")
The disturbing bit is that they had both recently graduated from the police academy. > [@](#): > > The two officers, John Galman, 26, and Spencer Sutton, 24, were fresh out of New Orleans’s police academy, graduating at the end of last year. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14135 "2018-07-27T14:10:55Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Minor nit pic. They weren’t acting or invoking their positions as officers when they attacked the victim. They are just two assholes who happen to be police officers. Fortunately they won’t have that title much longer. Happen to be? Maybe so. Or maybe these are the kind of aggressive, authoritarian, narrow-minded people attracted to the police force. Pure speculation on my part, but I’ve seen enough cops with chips on their shoulders and little or no empathy toward most people. > [@](#): > > New Orleans Police in a statement said that the men were still in a probationary period in their employment and that a termination process for the pair began Wednesday. So, not yet established behind the blue line, aka protected by the union and fully indoctrinated into the tribe. I suspect the outcome wouldn’t have been nearly so swift and decisive had it been two seasoned officers. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14136 "2018-07-27T14:47:49Z")
What’s interesting is that the FOP isn’t representing them. Can’t remember a case where that happened. > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > So, either the police did not have a clear shot and fired anyway OR they are very poor marksman. These are the best possibilities. A far worse possibility if that someone fired blindly in a panic. You don’t have to be a poor marksman to miss a shot. Even trained shooters are generally quite inaccurate with pistols, and that applies even more so when talking about moving targets. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14137 "2018-07-27T18:19:52Z")
Meridian, Mississippi cop caught on dashcam using a stun gun on a handcuffed suspect and then threatening him with it again after he’s down on the ground. The cop has been fired for using excessive force. > **[Dashcam footage shows Mississippi police officer firing stun gun at...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/dashcam-footage-shows-mississippi-police-officer-firing-stun/story?id=56845367)** > > The robbery suspect was handcuffed up against a van and appeared to be cooperating, the video shows. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14138 "2018-07-27T19:16:46Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > OK, somebody needs to help me with this. > > [Could death of Trader Joe’s manager have been avoided? It’s too soon to know](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/could-death-of-trader-joes-manager-have-been-avoided-its-too-soon-to-know/ar-BBL29eN) > > To me, it seems fairly simple. Either you have a shot or you don’t. If there is a person between you and the target, you don’t have a shot. > > So, either the police did not have a clear shot and fired anyway OR they are very poor marksman. These are the best possibilities. A far worse possibility if that someone fired blindly in a panic. These things are never simple. The officers had a decision to make and not much time to do it. Take the risk of shooting and possibly hit an innocent person or take the risk of not shooting and have the suspect shoot an innocent person(s), take hostages etc. Its not clear to me that the manager was in between the cops and the suspect or that the cops ever saw her. I don’t know the ranges involved here but hitting a target under those circumstances with a handgun is not easy. A missed shot (or shots) in a gunfight does not equal “very poor marksmanship”. As a hypothetical, the police get a report of a guy firing shots near a school. On arrival they see him, gun in hand, preparing to enter the front plate glass doors. They can’t see what’s on the other side of the doors. They are twenty yards away. Shoot or not? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14139 "2018-07-27T20:10:41Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Its not clear to me that the manager was in between the cops and the suspect or that the cops ever saw her. If the manager was not between the cops and the subject, how could the manager have been hit when they were firing at the subject? She was either directly between them, OR she was not in the line of sight and the shot was way off target. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14140 "2018-07-27T21:00:26Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > As a hypothetical, the police get a report of a guy firing shots near a school. On arrival they see him, gun in hand, preparing to enter the front plate glass doors. They can’t see what’s on the other side of the doors. They are twenty yards away. Shoot or not? The answer would have to be no, based only on the info provided. I do not know if there are innocents on the other side of the doors. You cant always see through them. At twenty yards, its difficult to be accurate. Also, you say ‘him’, but in this scenario, how would I know this him is a school shooter and not a teacher who went to his car for a gun, or a father who was close by and is a ‘good guy with a gun’? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14141 "2018-07-27T21:45:19Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > If the manager was not between the cops and the subject, how could the manager have been hit when they were firing at the subject? She was either directly between them, OR she was not in the line of sight and the shot was way off target. Or behind and they missed, or just a bit to the side, and they missed. Not really defending the shooting, but this is a completely different case than “I thought he might have been going for a gun because he made a movement.” They should have had better awareness of what was around the target, and held off for a better shot, but it is not as if there was no call for a violent response. > [@](#): > > The answer would have to be no, based only on the info provided. I do not know if there are innocents on the other side of the doors. You cant always see through them. At twenty yards, its difficult to be accurate. > > Also, you say ‘him’, but in this scenario, how would I know this him is a school shooter and not a teacher who went to his car for a gun, or a father who was close by and is a ‘good guy with a gun’? Or a plainclothes officer. This would defiantly be a case of not having enough information to proceed with pulling the trigger, IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=706) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=708)