# Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942 "2014-10-10T07:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 708
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14142 "2018-07-28T00:19:39Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Happen to be? Maybe so. Or maybe these are the kind of aggressive, authoritarian, narrow-minded people attracted to the police force. Pure speculation on my part, but I’ve seen enough cops with chips on their shoulders and little or no empathy toward most people. I have little doubt that if they hadn’t been here now that they would have been here eventually. > [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > If the manager was not between the cops and the subject, how could the manager have been hit when they were firing at the subject? She was either directly between them, OR she was not in the line of sight and the shot was way off target. The bullet could have passed through the suspect and struck the manager. More likely is that the officer was experiencing extreme tunnel vision where the only thing he could really see was the suspect in the stress of the situation. Officers are supposed to be aware of this problem, but when the adrenaline gets dumped into the system millions of years of evolution take over and he was focused on the primary threat. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14143 "2018-07-28T01:44:30Z")
[Police Held Ving Rhames At Gunpoint In His Own Home After A Neighbor Told 911 ‘A Large Black Man’ Had Broken In](https://blavity.com/police-held-ving-rhames-at-gunpoint-in-his-own-home-after-a-neighbor-told-911-a-large-black-man-had-broken-in) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14144 "2018-07-28T03:53:48Z")
Florida cop admits to framing black men for crimes: > **[Cop admits framing two black men as Florida town’s false arrest scandal widens](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article215589545.html)** > > The federal investigation into a handful of former Biscayne Park police officers accused of framing innocent people widened this week, when another cop was accused of falsifying arrest warrants for two men at the direction of the police chief. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14145 "2018-07-30T16:56:20Z")
Florida again. A cop was fired after kicking a pregnant woman [in the stomach](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/28/a-woman-gave-birth-early-after-an-officer-allegedly-kicked-her-in-the-stomach/?utm_term=.a2841f7f6ab0&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14146 "2018-07-30T18:23:09Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Florida again. A cop was fired after kicking a pregnant woman [in the stomach](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/28/a-woman-gave-birth-early-after-an-officer-allegedly-kicked-her-in-the-stomach/?utm_term=.a2841f7f6ab0&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1). How is or was this controversial? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14147 "2018-07-30T18:45:11Z")
> [@](#): > > After just over a year, we finally have some news about the death of Ismael Lopez. Last year, police in Southaven, Mississippi, mistakenly went to Lopez’s home in search of a man wanted on a domestic violence warrant. They had gone to the wrong house. > > What happened next is in dispute, but it ended with one officer going into the house and killing Lopez. (The man whose name was on the warrant was later arrested without incident.) > > For months, local authorities refused to speak to Lopez’s family. The family only recently obtained autopsy results. And their attorney was only able to obtain the name of the officer who shot Lopez through a leak. > > This week, the grand jury announced that there will be no criminal charges for the officers involved in Lopez’s death. > **[Opinion | Mississippi cops went to the wrong house and killed an innocent man....](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2018/07/27/mississippi-cops-went-to-the-wrong-house-and-killed-an-innocent-man-a-grand-jury-just-refused-to-indict-them/?utm_term=.d109d2fd2289&utm_source=reddit.com)** > > After a year of silence, local authorities criticize "inaccurate" and "inflammatory" statements in the media ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14148 "2018-07-31T06:17:28Z")
South Whitehall Township, PA (right outside Allentown) right across the street from popular Dorney Park. Cops respond to reports of an obviously disturbed man riding on and attacking cars. South Whitehall cop shows up, confronts dark skinned perpetrator who is clearly unarmed and after disobeying his orders instead of tasering him or calling for backup the cop puts 5 nuggets into him: Enjoy: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3g_6G_jQ4ac/hq2.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEoCOADEOgC8quKqQMcGADwAQH4AeYCgALoAooCDAgAEAEYSCBVKGUwDw==&rs=AOn4CLC9wVpN8koqONTT0hpcBFMsI2mtIQ "South whitehall police shooting near Dorney Park ( warning graphic content)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g_6G_jQ4ac) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14149 "2018-07-31T11:01:54Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > South Whitehall Township, PA (right outside Allentown) right across the street from popular Dorney Park. > > Cops respond to reports of an obviously disturbed man riding on and attacking cars. South Whitehall cop shows up, confronts dark skinned perpetrator who is clearly unarmed and after disobeying his orders instead of tasering him or calling for backup the cop puts 5 nuggets into him: > > Enjoy: > > [https://youtu.be/3g\_6G\_jQ4ac](https://youtu.be/3g_6G_jQ4ac) > Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Shoot first, seek mental health counseling later. Oh wait, dude’s dead. Not necessary. If I knew someone had mental health issues and was merely disturbing people but not posing a deadly or physical threat to anyone, I wouldn’t want to be the one to call the police. I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14150 "2018-07-31T14:58:24Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2018/07/27/mississippi-cops-went-to-the-wrong-house-and-killed-an-innocent-man-a-grand-jury-just-refused-to-indict-them/?utm\_term=.d109d2fd2289&utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2018/07/27/mississippi-cops-went-to-the-wrong-house-and-killed-an-innocent-man-a-grand-jury-just-refused-to-indict-them/?utm_term=.d109d2fd2289&utm_source=reddit.com) That should make our cop sucking Nazi very happy. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14151 "2018-07-31T15:44:02Z")
[Police in Aurora are called to a home invasion.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-suburban-denver-kill-resident-shot-intruder-56928012) They wind up shooting and killing the homeowner. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14152 "2018-07-31T16:02:35Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > [Police in Aurora are called to a home invasion.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-suburban-denver-kill-resident-shot-intruder-56928012) They wind up shooting and killing the homeowner. > [@](#): > > Aurora police, who described the scene in a statement as “very chaotic and violent,” said they encountered an armed man and fatally shot him. That man turned out to be the person who lived in the home. A second man, the suspected intruder, was found dead during a search. I believe this was the exact reason a guy who was concealed carrying at one of the CA school shootings didn’t draw his weapon - no way for responding police to know if you are a good guy with a gun, or a bad guy with a gun. Can’t see any way that the police won’t be found non-culpable here. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14153 "2018-07-31T17:04:49Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I believe this was the exact reason a guy who was concealed carrying at one of the CA school shootings didn’t draw his weapon Do you have a cite for this? I believe you, I just would like to read more about it because I hadn’t heard that. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14154 "2018-07-31T18:13:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? I believe you, I just would like to read more about it because I hadn’t heard that. > **[‘Good Guy With A Gun’ Was On UCC Campus At Time Of Massacre](https://thinkprogress.org/good-guy-with-a-gun-was-on-ucc-campus-at-time-of-massacre-1410b3cad225/)** ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14155 "2018-07-31T18:16:12Z")
Great, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14156 "2018-07-31T20:29:52Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I believe this was the exact reason a guy who was concealed carrying at one of the CA school shootings didn’t draw his weapon - no way for responding police to know if you are a good guy with a gun, or a bad guy with a gun. I can see how it would be very sensible if I were carrying in such a situation, to seek cover or a defensible position and only engage the threat IF it comes my way, rather than head out to attempt an intercept so that now there are TWO gunmen running around. Seems in the case of the homeowner, he probably was not sure if that one intruder was all there were, and while still clearing the house it happens just then the police come in and they stumble on each other guns drawn. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14157 "2018-08-01T05:10:28Z")
[LA cops shoot knife-wielding assailant and his hostage dead](https://apnews.com/990e47b80e244f7aaaddcdae2f21d4d4/LAPD-chief:-Officers-kill-a-hostage-for-1st-time-in-13-years). > [@](#): > > In the newly released footage from officers’ body-worn cameras, police spotted a suspect, Guillermo Perez, 32, holding a large knife and a metal folding chair outside the Central Lutheran Church on June 16. > > They responded to the church that provides food and support for homeless people after a 911 call reported a man had stabbed his ex-girlfriend. She was taken to the hospital with injuries that were not life-threatening. > > “Drop the knife!” an officer repeatedly shouted at Perez, but he ignored the command. > > An officer fires several rounds from a bean bag shotgun — which fires a small sack with metal pellets — but Perez appears to use the folding chair to deflect them. > > Perez walks backward and approaches a woman, Elizabeth Tollison, who was standing nearby. He dropped the chair and put the knife to her throat. > > Witnesses told police that Perez moved the knife in a “sawing motion against her throat and cut her throat,” Cmdr. Alan Hamilton, who leads the unit that investigates police shootings, said in the video. > > Three of the officers then opened fire from their handguns, shooting 18 rounds total. Both Perez and Tollison were killed. > [@](#): > > It was the first time in 13 years that Los Angeles police killed someone they consider an “innocent bystander or hostage.” > [@](#): > > The police chief said Tuesday that he was concerned because the average number of rounds fired by officers during shootings had increased last year and the average number of officers involved in those shootings also increased. > > The police department will implement a new training program and is exploring how to equip officers with other non-lethal weapons, he said. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14158 "2018-08-01T13:05:00Z")
Isn’t “Shoot the hostage” a tried-and-true tactic? I remember seeing it in some cop documentary I watched one time. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14159 "2018-08-01T13:49:56Z")
Well, granted, they did prevent a prolonged hostage standoff… ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14160 "2018-08-01T14:16:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [LA cops shoot knife-wielding assailant and his hostage dead](https://apnews.com/990e47b80e244f7aaaddcdae2f21d4d4/LAPD-chief:-Officers-kill-a-hostage-for-1st-time-in-13-years). > [@](#): > > Quote: > It was the first time in 13 years that Los Angeles police killed someone they consider an “innocent bystander or hostage.” But they would kill another just 5 weeks later. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942/14161 "2018-08-01T21:06:34Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > But they would kill another just 5 weeks later. I guess their claim was true, to a certain degree. But didn’t LE in that area, blast a guy on his porch whose crime was that he wouldn’t drop the nozzle off a garden hose sprayer? And didn’t they shoot the living shit out of two separate truck loads of people when they were hunting for Christopher Dorner? Who looked nothing like Dorner, nor his vehicle, by the way. Police are not incentivized to be prudent when it comes using deadly force. They likely won’t be fired if they can articulate some threat to their life, piercing their qualified immunity so that they can be civilly sued is incredibly difficult, and don’t make me laugh at the thought of actually criminally charging and convicting them. Whereas, the guy they’re trying to shoot, is often a fleeing violent felon who may be firing back at them. Taking their time to ‘make every shot count’ may result in the bad guy shooting them. Fuck that. If they instead mag dump at the guy, (and sympathetic firing happens like I’m sure happened in Snowboarder’s cite.), then they can get a better chance of hitting the guy with _something_, and the ill effects from missed bullets probably won’t affect them. Unlike if you or I just started blasting away at someone and an innocent person catches a bullet. So we end up with a police force that often resembles the cops from Idiocracy. For the instance that Snowboarder mentions, I’ve read that the cops were initially reticent to shoot the knife-wielder, when they had every reason to. Precisely because they didn’t want the heat from killing a guy (Hispanic to boot) just because he had a knife and wasn’t listening to their commands. Of course, by the time he was sawing on someone with the knife, it’s often too late to try and stop him before he could do serious damage to his victim. Good luck getting a one shot stop on his head with a handgun from 20 feet. And as before, magazine dumping at the general area of the guy means the hostage caught a few shots too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=707) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/controversial-encounters-between-law-enforcement-and-civilians-the-omnibus-thread/700942.md?page=709)